"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

News of the Day – 5/8/09

Today’s news is powered by the return of A-Rod:

  • Alex Rodriguez should be making his 2009 debut tonight.
  • Jayson Stark takes another look at those HR milestones in A-Rod’s contract:

Every time his home run total hit one of those “historic” numbers — Willie Mays’ 660 homers, Babe Ruth’s 714, Hank Aaron’s 755, and then the 762nd and 763rd homers that would pull Rodriguez even with and then beyond Barry Bonds — A-Rod’s cash register was supposed to ring.

But now here’s the key question:

Suppose, given his admission of steroid use and the other furor that has swirled around this man, the Yankees were to argue that he’s no longer a “historic” figure?

Wouldn’t that mean that those milestones were no longer “historic” accomplishments?

And wouldn’t that then mean that they no longer would have to pay him his 30 million “historic” bucks — or any portion thereof?

These are not questions the Yankees are asking — yet. But they’re questions we have heard asked around baseball lately, as A-Rod’s reputation, approval rating and marketability have plunged to somewhere south of Rio de Janeiro.

“If I’m the Yankees,” said an official of one team, “I think I’d be doing everything I could not to pay that money, and let him sue me for it.”

“I think the Yankees ought to challenge it and baseball ought to challenge it,” said an executive of another club. “And then it’s up to A-Rod and the union to determine how much they want to fight it. Does this guy really want to continue to go through this stuff? Does he really want to continue to explain himself?”

  • Murray Chass . . . disses Selena Roberts . . . and stands up for A-Rod?:

Roberts has written a book about Alex Rodriguez, and it is a journalistic abomination. That phrase probably won’t appear in any advertisement for the book, but it should to alert prospective readers what they would be getting.

I use the word journalistic rather than literary for two reasons: 1, the book grew out of a Sports Illustrated project; 2, Roberts has been a newspaper and magazine reporter and columnist and as such has practiced the craft of journalism. Based on the book, however, she needs a lot more practice.

In general, Roberts makes far too many serious allegations about Rodriguez to hide them behind anonymous quotes. Rodriguez deserves more, but more importantly readers deserve more. There is far too much in this attack book for Roberts to expect readers to take it on faith that her anonymous sources are real and they can be trusted.

The use of anonymous sources has come under increasing criticism from readers of all types of publications. Having used them frequently in my decades as a reporter and columnist, I am aware of the problems they pose. Reporters have to establish their credibility with their use of unidentified sources for readers to accept them.

Roberts and I were once colleagues at The New York Times, and I can’t say she established that credibility. She also didn’t strike me as being a top-flight reporter. As a result, I don’t feel I can trust her book full of anonymous sources. Even if every single A-Rod transgression she reports is accurate, it’s too easy for her to write one former teammate said this and another player said that.

Had she written these same reports for the Times, very little would have made it into the paper. I’m not familiar with Sports Illustrated’s standards, but I hope they’re higher than the Roberts book offers. Actually, if you remove the quotes and other information that Roberts attributes to anonymous sources in the 246-page book, it might be left with 46 pages.

  • First Posada . . . now Molina?:

Jose Molina (left quad) appears headed for the DL based on what Joe Girardi said tonight.

Unless Brian Cashman can make an overnight trade, Kevin Cash and Chris Stewart are the catchers at Triple-A Scranton. I would think one of them will be summoned.

[My take: And just WHY didn’t the Yanks make a waiver claim on Brayan Pena when they had the chance?]

  • PeteAbe piles on the depressing health news . . . now its Mo!:

Mariano Rivera has thrown 11.1 innings this season and allowed 15 hits. Four of them are home runs.

To put that in some perspective, there were eight full seasons in Mo’s career when he did not give up four home runs. Tonight was the first time he has given up back-to-back homers.

Does his shoulder still bother him? Poor command is usually a sign of injury and Mo has yet to issue a walk. His velocity is down a tick or two but that is not unusual given his age and inconsistent workload this season.

If something is wrong with Rivera, it’s incomprehensible to think about what will become of the Yankees.

UPDATE, 11:07 p.m.: Girardi just said that Mo has been battling “arm strength” issues. Uh oh.

[My take: How soon til the “Make Chamberlain the closer” talk begins?]

Also, Yankees pitcher Chien-Ming Wang, on the disabled list due to weakness of the abductor muscles in his hips, allowed three hits over five scoreless innings in the extended spring training game. He struck out seven during a 72-pitch outing.

“He was fine,” Yankees vice president Billy Connors said. “Good sinker. He’s feeling good, too. He’s healthy. That’s the most important thing.”

Wang, who missed the final 3 1/2 months last season with a right foot injury, said he felt better and hopes to return to the Yankees after one or two more minor league outings.

My family has 4 seats in the most ex/pensive seats that are separate from the moat (the ones that cost $325), and they are great seats. Our 4 seats became 6 last week when the Yankees made the changes to their ticket policies and gave us 2 complimentary seats 4 rows back from our usual seats for the rest of the year.

On the way to the game Monday vs. the Sox we got a call from the Yankees. They were moving us to the Legends seats, and not just any Legend seats. These seats were 5 rows back, directly behind home plate … ones that either go for $850 or $2,500, I’m not sure. And they put all 6 of us that were going together in one row.

When we picked up the seats at the stadium there were tons of other envelopes of people who got upgraded for free. This is how desperate they are … even when Boston is in town they have to give out complimentary upgrades to get butts in those seats.

[My take: If they fall out of contention by July . . . there may not be anyone to take the upgrade.]

  • Former teammate Johnny Damon, on the suspended Manny Ramirez:

“Another one of our great players has gotten in trouble,” said Johnny Damon, who played with Ramirez for four years in Boston. . . .

Ramirez was the most valuable player of the Red Sox’ 2004 World Series victory. Damon was asked if the title was tainted now.

“I really don’t know how to answer that, because if you go back to every team that has won over the last 15 years, who knows?” Damon said.

“What we accomplished that year in Boston was pretty extraordinary — the comeback and all that stuff — and I would love to know that when we went through that season, we played fair, and everything that we won, we won the right way. I would love for it to come out that way.”

Damon said he never believed Ramirez would be the kind of player to resort to using performance-enhancing drugs. He said Ramirez was a hard worker who made the game look easy.

“I didn’t think he needed an edge,” Damon said.

Poll Time!:

[poll id=”30″]

  • Todd Greene turns 38 today.  Greene was a backup backstop on the 2001 squad (.208/.240/.281 in 35 games).
  • Orestes Destrade turns 47 today.  The Yanks signed him as an amateur free agent in ’81, and he had a cup of coffee with the big club in ’87, before being dealt to Pittsburgh for Hipolito Pena.
  • On this date in 1915, the Yankees pound the Red Sox, 10 – 3, scoring all of their runs in the 4th inning. Sixteen Yanks come to the plate in the frame.
  • On this date in 1961, the Angels trade P Tex Clevenger and OF Bob Cerv to the Yankees for P Ryne Duren, P Johnny James and OF Lee Thomas. For Cerv, it is his 3rd tour of duty in pinstripes.
  • On this date in 1991, Howard Spira is found guilty of trying to extort money from Yankees owner George Steinbrenner. Spira had already received $40,000 from Steinbrenner.
  • On this date in 1994, Danny Tartabull, Mike Stanley and Gerald Williams hit back-to-back-to-back home runs for the Yankees in the 6th inning of NY’s 8-4 win over Boston.

Categories:  Diane Firstman  News of the Day

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42 comments

1 Alex Belth   ~  May 8, 2009 8:02 am

I think the Chass article is very interesting. He makes some very compelling points. I haven't read the book but he seems spot on. However, his arguement is almost undermined by the viciousness of the critique which also sounds like he's grinding a personal axe. Also, it's interesting that the post is so long, longer than a column in a paper would ever be. Damn self-indulgent bloggers. LOL.

2 rbj   ~  May 8, 2009 8:37 am

1) If Mo has an injury, how about making Joba the closer?

2) Interesting to hear Mike Lowell's comments last night, essentially saying that Manny made a personal choice and has to deal with the consequences. No expression of shock or "I never saw anything like that" from a former teammate.

3) Chass' article is a bit harsh, but I think spot on. Selena's NYT columns on A-Rod were consistently negative on A-Rod, and seemed to be coming straight from the A-Rod haters' chorus, nothing original there. Plus there are too many unnamed sources and supposition, especially with the more damning allegations of high school steroid use and pitch tipping. Sorry, but if you're going to call Alex a liar and essentially throwing games you need on the record sources. Not innuendo. IMO, Selena can go to hell.

3 RIYank   ~  May 8, 2009 8:58 am

For me, the fact that Chass himself is such an ass vitiates the power of his critique. It's not a rational reactio. If I didn't know who wrote it, I'm sure I would have been nodding in agreement through the whole piece.

4 RagingTartabull   ~  May 8, 2009 9:08 am

[1] Murray Chass...self-indulgent??? Noooo, surely you jest sir! We should just be happy Selena never used VORP or WHIP in the book (I'm assuming), then we'd really see Murray lose his cool. Or at least get almost as pissed as he does when someone refers to his blog as a "blog."

/end Chass-esque rant/

5 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 9:16 am

While Chass is woefully behind the times in many areas, it's nice to see an "old hand" stand up for something that should be timeless...journalistic integrity. It's also very illuminating to see him directly question Roberts' professional credibility above and beyond this pitiful book. For me, the saddest part in this whole mess is that role of SI. Perhaps pressured by the mass appeal of ESPN, SI has abandoned its status as a magazine dedicated to the finest standards of journalism (and not just in sports). Now, it counts several shock journalists on its payrolls (people who seem more interested in making money off attack books than practicing the craft of journalism) as well as lead writers whose allegiances are spread thin over both the industry and among the subjects they cover (can Verducci have any credibility regarding Torre? Aren’t Heyman’s myriad of other paid jobs a conflict too?)

6 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 9:17 am

PS - Normally I would be chomping at the bit to talk baseball instead of these sideshows, but with the way the team is playing, any distraction is welcomed. I almost hope Arod shows up in a collar being led by a chain in the hand of Madonna.

7 Simone   ~  May 8, 2009 9:19 am

Selena Roberts must have kicked Chass' dog. I choked with laughter when he talked about the NY Times having journalistic standards. Given how much Chass has been berated on this blog, I look forward to how many people desperate to support Alex will embrace his blog comment.

I am really tired of the "kill the messenger mentality when I like the player" that exists in the sports world. You would think that these sports reporters and bloggers would learn. I hope Roberts makes a mint on this book. Someone other Alex should profit from him being a liar and a cheat.

Is Mo done?

8 Horace Clarke Era   ~  May 8, 2009 9:19 am

No catcher, no closer? Now even this veteran of the 'it is a long season' mantra might actually start feeling edgy. Until Mo gave up a pair last night I was ready to remind the Banter of last May when a lot of people were dumping on Damon and I started the Damon's Da Man chant as he carried the team for awhile.

Didn't feel right, after the 9th. If Mo is really dealing with shoulder issues, I might even reverse my long-held ground that shifting Joba makes NO sense, since 200 innings is worth way more than 65 ('bout three times more?). There exists nobody on this team, or even vaguely available for less than Madoff Robbery who can close in the Bronx. I hate the idea of doing it to Joba, he needs to get to 140-150 innings this year and it isn't a slamdunk to go starter-reliever-starter with an arm that isn't rock steady itself.

In short, the last 72 hours have been really, really bad.

I agree with Alex, above, that Chass's tone felt a little too personal. He dislikes Selena, thinks she's generally an amateur, and it shows. Better to have simply nailed the book as a book.

Finally, since I spent the last while scoping out today's info on Manny, from SI.com:

Torre and Colletti praised Ramirez for candidly responding to the allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs, but they were being generous. Ramirez did not go to Dodger Stadium on Thursday, did not address his teammates and did not take part in the press conference, releasing only a statement claiming that a doctor had prescribed him banned medication. He blamed himself for not knowing more about the medication, but by and large, he made Alex Rodriguez look transparent.

___________

Candidly responding? Is this a sport that is still in denial, or what? I do acknowledge that this is his TEAM, and he's back with them in July, but you can be supportive without being ludicrous.

I do miss Torre though, right now, with all the talk yesterday about pressing, and tension, and it being 'on Girardi'... Who's torre now, as someone wrote last fall.

9 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 9:20 am

[1] Viciousness? Is Roberts above professional criticism? I don't see anything vicious in it at all, especially when compared to the viciousness Roberts has repeatedly shown in her work (including, but not limited ot this book). At least Chass put his name to the criticism and didn't pass it off on an unnamed source.

10 rbj   ~  May 8, 2009 9:23 am

Oh, and as for searching around for another catcher, Girardi does look in shape. Dunno about his bat speed, but quite frankly, at this stage in the game, where are the Yankees going to get a catcher who can hit.

11 Rich   ~  May 8, 2009 9:35 am

[2] 1) If Mo has an injury, how about making Joba the closer?

No, he can be a #1 starter.

As I said at the time, putting him in the pen in 2007 was an egregious mistake.
__

Chass is what he is, but I don't blame him for being angry that Selena Roberts's reliance on so many unnamed sources and inclusion of factual errors harms the profession that has been his life's work.

12 vockins   ~  May 8, 2009 9:35 am

The Chass article did seem like he had an axe to grind, but the points were clear. I don't see a compelling reason why she should accept anonymous quotes considering the subject. She's not covering Watergate.

I also don't see how benching 300 lbs. in high school is a definite sign someone is on steroids. That's not exceptional at all, even in the timeframe she described.

13 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 9:40 am

[12] How easy would it have been to at least cite credible medical professionals on the liklihood of a boy Arod's size increasing his bench press. In my freshman year of high school, I played lacrosse and part of being on the team was 1 hour of weight training every day. In one school year, I went from benching around 80lbs to over 200lbs. Unless the water fountain was providing a supply of PEDs, I don't think I was doing steroids at the time.

14 Horace Clarke Era   ~  May 8, 2009 9:41 am

I just want to add that johnnystrongleg in the last thread points out that this is an annual event in spring: Mo's done, the sky has fallen.

I've got his back. The only catch is that if there's an injury issue we don't know how that plays out, but Mo has botched saves in spring lots of times. The Crawford at-bat was an exceptional battle and he almost Ked him twice. At 3-2 he didn't want to walk a guy who has already stolen 20 bases, with a double back up C behind the plate. Longoria is a monster this spring, maybe this year. It happens.

But the arm issue's a bigger factor.

15 RagingTartabull   ~  May 8, 2009 9:42 am

On this date in 1991, Howard Spira is found guilty of trying to extort money from Yankees owner George Steinbrenner. Spira had already received $40,000 from Steinbrenner.

yeah no totally, this team would be way better off "if George were still George"

16 RagingTartabull   ~  May 8, 2009 9:45 am

I gotta think though, if they were THAT concerned about Mo's strength (or at least more concerned then you naturally would be for a pitcher his age) they probably would try to avoid going to him 2 nights in a row.

So is this a case of "well he's 39 and coming off of surgery, so naturally we're concerned" or "I think there is something wrong with him and I'm concerned"...two different things in my mind.

17 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 9:47 am

[14] The velocity is a concern because it means that Mo has to be more careful. If the drop is permanent, it just means he has to locate better. In other words, he may have to walk more people than go right after them when behind in the count. The Crawford AB was a perfect example. At 3-2, he had to know Mo didn't want to walk him (esp. with his ability to steal). Because he isn't throwing 92-93, Crawford was in the driver's seat.

As he showed two days ago, Mo can still be a highly effective closer with his location. So, even if the velocity doesn't come back (and it very well could), Rivera is still the least of the Yankees problems. In fact, the Yankees should be so lucky to have Mo be their biggest concern.

18 Rich   ~  May 8, 2009 9:50 am

[15] On balance, are the Yankees and their fans better off or worse off as a result of the totality of George's tenure as an owner? I think the answer is that both are unequivocally better off.

19 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 9:52 am

[15] George was George before and after the Spira incident. That one incident is small part of his legacy, but if that's where you choose to focus, that's up to you. The last few years have seemed different, and I think the reason is not new players, new managers or new stadiums, but the absence of the real George. In his later years, he managed to combine toughness and accountability with an affection that seemed to inspire his players. Even Torre, who had his battles, always said that he worked well with George. Now, I don’t sense the same accountability, and it is being reflected on the field.

20 RagingTartabull   ~  May 8, 2009 9:57 am

[18] They (we) are better off because of the willingness to spare no expense on the construction of a roster, and I don't think thats something thats changed. If Hank and Hal start turning into penny pinchers, then we got a problem...but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I'm only referring to some fan's apparent nostalgia for the day's of an unhinged George doing things/making moves that did huge damage to the franchise. It seems that anytime the Yankees struggle we hear "well if George were still running things!!" Yeah if George (and I'm talking GEORGE George, like 1977 George) we're calling all the shots we probably would've traded Melancon for Scott Podsednik by now because that would "light a fire under these guys!"

21 rbj   ~  May 8, 2009 10:08 am

[11], see [0]
"[My take: How soon til the "Make Chamberlain the closer" talk begins?]"

Figured someone had to start it.

Joba would make a great closer, but Mo's going to be around for a couple more years and Joba's more valuable as a starter than wasting a couple years as the 8th inning guy.

22 Rich   ~  May 8, 2009 10:13 am

[20] But for all of George's excesses, they have still won six WS during the course of his ownership, at least in part because of George's unwillingness to tolerate underachievement.

Granted, there has been bitter as well as sweet, but at least since Stick became the GM in the early '90s, he was able to prevent George from giving in to his most inane excesses, e.g., not trading Bernie Williams when he struggled early in his career.

This may be one of those times when a bold move is required. It was going to be hard enough for anyone to succeed Torre, irrespective of his shortcomings.

What concerns me most about Girardi is that he stopped doing something that made me so hopeful about his prospects for managerial success last season: giving young relievers a chance to succeed even when they struggled, something Torre was reluctant to do.

Now he has basically buried Melancon and Robertson even though they have as much or more talent than any reliever on the staff other than Rivera.

23 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 10:17 am

[21] Chamberlain's long-term value is higher as a starter, but I am beginning to think he is better off in a hybrid role this year.

Right now, the Yankees biggest weakness is in the bullpen. On the other hand, if Wang comes back strong, then the Yankees have 6 starters capable of being above average. The way I look at is this...is 5.5 inning every 5 days from Joba (instead of from Hughes) more valuable than 3-4 innings every 5 days from Joba (instead of from Veras/Albaledejo/Edwar).

When looked at in that context, I think the Yankees might get more value from Joba in the pen. Furthermore, if Joba's innings limit is around 140, he is going to hit that in early August. In other words, he will have to be shut down for almost 6 weeks to avoid going over. To me, that is not an effective use of his ability.

What I would propose is moving him to the pen as soon as possible. Instead of being an 8th inning guy, however, I would use him for 2-inning stints in as many high leverage situations as possible. This would allow his innings to ramp up to the level he will need to further develop next season. Then, come August, the Yankees can either move him to the rotation to hit his targets (either because they are out of it or need him more in the rotation to contend) or leave him in the pen and try to get his innings elevated with longer stints.

In his age-24 season, Johan Santana pitched around 150 innings between the rotation and the pen. I see no reason Joba can’t do the same and remain on-track to be an ace starter in the future.

24 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 10:27 am

By the way, what's the deal with so many people touting Brayan Pena? He is a 27 year old journeyman with very mediocre numbers in the minors (esp. for someone of such an advanced age). Besides, if the Yankees put a claim in on Pena, they'd have had to drop someone from the roster.

25 Diane Firstman   ~  May 8, 2009 10:31 am

Gotta love The Post .... their front page headline today ...

"Girlie Manny"

26 unmoderated   ~  May 8, 2009 10:39 am

I had an idea: Wang as closer if Mo is hurt (we're gonna have to put him somewhere)

then I though about K rates and mental makeup and silly trucker hats and I realized it was a terrible idea.

turrible.

27 Diane Firstman   ~  May 8, 2009 10:47 am

[26]

I'm trying to think of closers of recent vintage that didn't have a fastball as their "main" pitch:

Hoffman
Sparky Lyle

(then I draw a blank)

So yeah, CMW probably won't be a great idea

... I know .... let's trade Brett Gardner for Heath Bell! (just kidding)

28 Raf   ~  May 8, 2009 10:54 am

Right now, the Yankees biggest weakness is in the bullpen.

To that point, if the starters come back strong, then the work of the bullpen is minimized, because I see no reason these guys can't go 6+ innings every start.

29 Raf   ~  May 8, 2009 11:01 am

I’m trying to think of closers of recent vintage that didn’t have a fastball as their “main” pitch

Joe Borowski, David Weathers, Adam Wainright, Todd Jones, Keith Foulke, Brad Lidge, Francisco Rodriguez

30 Diane Firstman   ~  May 8, 2009 11:04 am

[29]

OK .... I stand (sit) corrected .... :-)

31 RagingTartabull   ~  May 8, 2009 11:20 am

Abe's take on the Roberts book: http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/05/08/swing-and-a-miss/

Pretty evenhanded for a guy that has gone on record as calling Rodriguez a "clown" every chance he gets.

32 Raf   ~  May 8, 2009 11:27 am
33 Horace Clarke Era   ~  May 8, 2009 11:39 am

[22] What concerns me most about Girardi is that he stopped doing something that made me so hopeful about his prospects for managerial success last season: giving young relievers a chance to succeed even when they struggled, something Torre was reluctant to do.

Rich, honestly, I am not close to a Girardi fan, but in midst of a major losing streak and with the Bronx fans and media involved, it is VERY hard to trot out kids to 'learn on the go' ... even Torre, in midst of his sure tenure, had trouble doing that. Nor am I sure the kids are anythign like an answer. Any more than Brayan Pena is. Jeez, can you imagine? Brayan Pena??

Pete Abe on Selena ... this caught my eye:

In her postscript, Roberts acknowledges the use of 19 anonymous sources. But no explanation is given as to why these sources needed anonymity. It’s also unclear whether the 19 sources were used equally or whether one or two sources provided the bulk of the information. We’re supposed to trust her judgment, apparently.

Why DO they need anonymity? Fear of lawsuits? It is her and her publishers who would get sued. It is way, way to easy to slam a guy anonymously, and too easy for a journalist to allow it. If she has SOME on-the-record sources, she can (in my mind) mention that there were others who preferred to be off-record (maybe retired teammates? people wishing to not have si.com chasing them?) but if the FULL roster is anonymous, this is bad.

I'm less happy with Pete Abe's ending, and not just for the grammar/typos: "Roberts come close. But a good editor would have kicked the manuscript back and told her to come back when she more."

Based on his own assessment above, she does NOT come close.

34 Diane Firstman   ~  May 8, 2009 11:45 am

Excuse me .... but I'm having a Beavis and Butt-head moment ...

http://tinyurl.com/qg5hez
"Decreased velocity marks first back-to-back jacks off closer"

35 Diane Firstman   ~  May 8, 2009 11:52 am

Gossage lays into Manny Ramirez .... (worth the price of admission):

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=4468565

36 williamnyy23   ~  May 8, 2009 12:05 pm

[35] I love Goose, but if he thinks players wouldn't have (or didn't) use steroids in his era, he's fooling himself. Also, what does Goose think about greenies, which very well might be greater perforance enhances than steroids? It's part of the human condition to denigrate others to feel about yourself, but it's still too bad that so many are willing to be so self righteous and hypocritical.

37 randym77   ~  May 8, 2009 12:20 pm

[25] A wag on another blog called it, "Just Manny being tranny."

38 rbj   ~  May 8, 2009 12:20 pm

And how about Bob Gibson using greenies and muscle relaxants in the 1968 World Series? Baseball and other pro sports haven't been clean for a long time.

39 cult of basebaal   ~  May 8, 2009 12:27 pm

Aren’t Heyman’s myriad of other paid jobs a conflict too?

over at BBTF, Heyman's nickname is "Lord Haw-Haw" given his official appearance as a mouthpiece/rumor monger for Boras.

40 Diane Firstman   ~  May 8, 2009 12:29 pm

[38]

I think the argument/discussion/point-of-differentiation is that 'roids have a long-term impact on the physiology of the athlete (assuming they keep up an exercise regimen), an impact that CAN be harmful due to the tendency for unnatural stresses (muscle load) to be placed on tendons and ligaments. Also, greenies/muscle relaxants, et. al. do not have the potentially catastrophic side effects of heart/liver failure.

41 The Hawk   ~  May 8, 2009 1:10 pm

I realized that A Rod and Manny represent the Alpha and Omega of PEDs. I can't be surprised from here on out because they have covered all the bases (pun unintended but appreciated) as far as what type of player I figured wouldn't do them. You have the golden boy, Mr Perfect, control freak specimen and you have the genius goofball/asshole (whichever you prefer). Neither one would I have initially tagged, vis a vis my understanding of them, as PED users.

I mean, I'd be mildly surprised if Mariano or Jeter used them. That's about it. Before, I'd have been shocked.

42 rbj   ~  May 8, 2009 2:05 pm

[40] True. But if we are going to venture into "steroids taint the numbers" thing, then all the other "helpers" need to be factored in as well. Not to mention the effects segregation had on pre 1948 numbers.

Though amphetamines can become habit forming and lead to long term damage if abused enough.

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"This ain't football. We do this every day."
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