Just whose team is it anyway?

I don't mean to be negative in any way here, but I really question by virtue of tonight's game, as I watched it unfold, if this is still Derek Jeter's team, or is it now Alex Rodriguez's team?

It seems to me there has been a fundamental shift into the reality that is how much better a player Alex is than Derek, at this stage in their respective careers. It's almost as though the game has passed the Yankees’ Captain by (in addition to the rest of the core players from the title years), as he continues to struggle against much more formidable and younger competition within his own division and league from day to day. I mean, isn't it a bit early for Derek to appear to be so worn out, not even a month and a half into the season? I believe the much anticipated and hyped return of Alex was practically too much for Jeter to bear, as he tried in vain to offer some productivity, other than the few room service ground balls he fielded in that game, and he endured yet another 0’fer with his bat, almost sinking and shrinking into relative obscurity at the force that is still Alex Rodriguez among his peers within MLB.

Alex is not playing at 100%, despite his comments that he "feels great," and yet he made such an initial impact with his return as to allow their new Ace to begin his start on the road at ease. His three run HR on the first pitch FB he clobbered really appeared to allow the team to heave a tremendous sigh of relief, as it went into the stands. That's really a great advantage for any starter when compared to recent games where they failed miserably to allow the rest of the team to enjoy any lead at all, for within hours of a week's worth of time. Could Jeter still wield such an impact if their two situations were reversed? I don’t believe so, I’m afraid. Meanwhile, if Jeter is still hurting from his collision against the Angel player on his stolen base, clearly he is a shadow of himself at less than 100%, and shame on him for not allowing a 100% Ramiro Pena to play his primary position at SS, and gain even more increased and inherently valuable confidence, until such time as Jeter is cleared to play by team doctors. Isn't that part of the problems within the clubhouse for the team these days; veterans having disdain for the kids, and also having such a lack of credibility and integrity with respect to their health and readiness to play from day to day?

Like you so professionally put it Emma, I too, am reminded of the biblical story of the Prodigal Son. We like the guy with personality flaws much more so than the "company guy," who does everything right and exact all of the time, because in reality we are all flawed at so many levels, perfection seems so unobtainable and out of reach. As great a player as Alex is, we can identify with him infinitely more easily, because he is so human in the midst of all of his greatness, while we cannot identify with Derek in the least, because of how flawlessly he’s handled himself during most of his career.

I'm also reminded of the Open Championship (British Open) in 2000 at St. Andrews, when the old "Golden Bear" Jack Nicklaus walked off the 18TH green, he unknowingly passed Tiger Woods heading to his 1ST tee, who would proceed to absolutely crush the tournament record at The Old Course, in a fashion that will not ever be duplicated, even by himself, as he shot 19 Under Par, and avoided all of the 100+ viciously placed sand bunkers there, during the entire week. Nicklaus couldn’t have accomplished such a performance during his most storied career on his best days, in a similar fashion that Derek Jeter could never accomplish the power numbers Alex has if he played two careers, and used so many PEDs, he’d make Canseco and Bonds look like they were children popping a single Skittle once every ten years for a sugar rush! I’ll never forget that symbolic “passing of the torch” of Golf’s Greatness, which is still so vivid in my mind’s eye today. And additionally, I’ll probably never forget the day Alex Rodriguez returned from rehabilitating his surgically repaired hip, and became the Yankees’ Prodigal Son, and along with that, he took the whole team right out from under the Captain, at the very least for now. Today, it seems the New York Yankees belong to Alex Rodriguez. That's his reward for being human in the midst of all his greatness. It just goes to show the truth in the old saying, "Bad Press is better than no Press at all."

I'm just thinking and wondering as I type is all, which is kind of new for me, as I continue to “See a Different Game.”

Or maybe I'm trying to get a "scoop" out of such an outrageous concept, ahead of all of the writers, who actually get paid to do what they do.

Of maybe I'm simply seeing things that don't exist at all.

Hmmm...

: )

there is some kind of Spinal Tap related production being performed here at the Fabulous Fox Theater in Atlanta tomorrow. Just to make certain - I am a professional drummer and am alive & well, all is good! Go Yankees, Go Drums, Go MUSIC, and for those who imbibe - go BEER!!! : )

If it were ever necessary to explain to people why BxBanter is so cool, Emma, PJ and thelarmis posts above would be all the evidence you would need. Great stuff guys, would reply at length to you PJ but am on the way to imbibe some Sapporo Black Label beer and yakitori (grilled chicken skewers) down the street...so will just say that i think you are partially right, this is A-Rod's team now and we'll sink or swim with him!

Catchers? We Don’t Need No Stinking Catchers!

Let the motherfucker burn?

[1] But Joe said, "Derek, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy teammate was injured, and is well again; and was lost, and is found."

This is becoming a very biblical team, what with the Trials of Joba and now the Prodigal A-Rod.

Thelarmis, I know there are some cool Prodigal Son songs but I can't remember any. Isn't there an early Stones song? (And please, keep a fire extinguisher handy, just in case.)

Hello Cleveland!

RIP Chuck Daly

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/11728123

I just saw Pete Abe's note about Ian Kennedy. Yikes. That doesn't sound good. Does that mean he's out for the year?

[7] A quick Chuck Daly story. About 15 years ago, I was walking toward Baumgart's Cafe in Englewood, NJ from my car to pick up a take-out order. I saw an older guy, who was slightly ahead of me, walking toward the restaurant as well. I sped up because I was in a huge rush and I didn't want to wait behind another person. But the older guy seemed to see me with his peripheral vision and also started walking faster. I then attempted to move even more rapidly, thinking that the older man couldn't keep up with me, but he sped up as well, beating me to the door of the restaurant.

He then held open the door and looked back at me as he walked through the entrance before I did. It was Chuck Daly, who gave me a look as if to indicate that he may be significantly older than me, but he could still move.

The Joba scene in Cleveland was pretty darn biblical. A Rod's return - not so much, but that's not to say it wasn't thrilling.

***

Who did YES name player of the game? I missed that. I understand if they named A Rod, but honestly I think it should be CC.

***

Btw, if you can identify with A Rod, you are either a sociopath or hats off to your powers of imagination. ; )

[8] Just doing some quick googling, Cone had his surgery in early May of 1996, but returned to start five games in September. The problem for Kennedy is that the mL season is over by then, but he could be a September call up, I guess.

Actually, looking a little further, Cone started two games for AA Norwich that season, so maybe Kennedy could be back by August, if their injuries are similar. It's also possible that there has been an improvement in the procedure and recovery time since 1996.

Of course, Cone was a key member of the major league rotation, and Kennedy is still a minor league prospect. There's no reason to rush Kennedy back and all the reason in the world to be careful with him. I'd count him out for the season, not that I expected anything other than a September call-up from him to begin with.

"Prodigal Son", wow, what superlatives are being thrown out. Why is it important for people to look to dis Jeter whenever anything positive is said or is tried to be said about A-Rod?

I really don't get that logic. I love how Jeter is wrapped around the same argument that was said about Torre, "veterans having disdain for the kids".

[1] Seriously, you can write all these things and make A-Rod to be a victim here, but the bottom line is that A-Rod is hardly a victim in any of this. Roberts and the book written about A-Rod is a total hatchet job, but a good friend of mine asked me the following which I could provide no answer to:
"OK, she obviously has a thing against A-Rod, but what can you point to in that book and say it is 100% false?"

I had no answer to that because there's nothing A-Rod has said/done that allows me to say, "oh this is false". A-Rod has NO credibility, therefore, there's little in the book that I can question, even though I hate the way it was written and her inability to reveal sources for the more controversial allegations.

A-Rod is the Yankees 3rd basemen, the fact that he plays for my favorite team automatically allows me to root for the guy and want him to do well. However, I won't be blinded by his production on the field and use him as a crutch to dis another Yankee player - in this case Jeter.

A-Rod can't hold Jeter's jockstrap in the "character" department. The other I love when people dis Jeter is how a sport that is dominated mostly by male fans, these same fans love to go off on Jeter's dating habits. When, in fact, he's single and can date as many women as possible. They use that as another defense to dis Jeter over A-Rod, the same A-Rod who is a habitual womanizer.

I appreciate A-Rod's homerun yesterday, I was excited and happy for him, we need him to inject some juice into this lineup, I want him to do well and I'd like for him to help the Yankees get a world championship. Outside of baseball related matters, A-Rod is a very flawed human being whom I find has zero point zero redeeming qualities.

[13] This sentence:
"The other I love when people dis Jeter is how a sport that is dominated mostly by male fans, these same fans love to go off on Jeter’s dating habits."

Should read:
"The other thing I love is when people dis Jeter, in a sport dominated mostly by male fans, a lot of these same fans critique Jeter's dating habits and point to that as a negative character flaw, so A-Rod can be made to look good"

[1] You know, I wondered what grand statements would be trotted out after the homer, but I didn't see this one coming. Does a team have to BELONG to someone? Is Varitek meaningless as BoSox captain because he's a far more marginal player - and infinitely more so than Jeter? We KNOW it isn't so, we know that respect and showing up and commitment carry value through a season, and we also know (or some of us do) that players slump, revive, play through injuries. Right now, Cano just broke a 1 for 22/23. Teixeira is likely playing with a bad wrist. PJ, did you REALLY want Jeter DLed last week and Pena PLUS Berroa in our infield? That is assuming a batting average slide for 10 days is an injury slide. We all tend to read so MUCH into short segments here (and I do know the banter isn't as bad as other sites ... I've mostly stopped reading the comments on other sites!)

There was talk two years ago, when Melky and Robbie started the A Rod sandwich stuff in his MVP year that the team was becoming his then, and this discussion played out in a few places. I honestly don't see any contradiction between a 'best player' and a captain. Nor did I see Jeter so obviously 'messed up' as you suggest last night. He hit balls well, and I expect him to keep doing it.

I see all of this as a weird 'the worm turns' thing ... Jeter may have gotten too much praise (may have!) for being a young, excellent part of a great team, and he's now getting too much negativity for the normal aging process at shortstop. He'll be fine. Not for 3 more years, but for now. So will Damon, who is raking enough for me to start my He's Da Mon thing again.

I'll let the young 'uns fall in love with Swisher's good 3 weeks and dump on a veteran having a bad two weeks. Let's check in in July on this one. Teixeira ought to be solid too UNLESS that wrist is a real issue. One issue people aren't tracking enough: with Alex down, Posada down, people were and are playing hurt (Damon, Tex, maybe Jeter). This is NOT selfishness. Selfish is the opposite. Pavano. It is the manager's job, with the trainers, to determine if a player's hurting too much and needs to sit (as Youkilis is, as Ellsbury did) or be DLed to heal (Guillen in Detroit). Without knowing the medical data, it is just too wrong for fans to make calls on this one.

“OK, she obviously has a thing against A-Rod, but what can you point to in that book and say it is 100% false?”

So completely the wrong question it actually makes me want to smite my brow, and I don't do a whole lot of brow-smiting! Dimelo, I KNOW you lead the Anti-Rod tream here, but if you just THINK about it ... when and how and WHY would someone be able to formally rebut anonymnous rumour and innuendo? Why does anyone HAVE to? If someone said to the banter that Dimelo did X when in high school would any of us be able to REBUT it?

Can Rodriguez do more than say 'Didn't happen?' What does anyone DO when anonymously smeared? Call witnesses to say 'Never saw him use!'? 'Never saw him tip a sign?' You know that's pointless, and even gives too much weight to the anonymous bits. The job of someone making life and career smashing claims is to substantiate so the reader can draw valid conclusions. It is never the job of the victim (and in this case he is) celebrity to go out and refute. Should he sue? Is there a worse process to get into in America today, while playing baseball in the Bronx?

Dude, I think you have to think this one through a bit more. Or the friend you quote (approvingly) does.

To say "NO credibility' is just to assert (again and again) your view, not to offer a fact, by the way.

[13] I kind of agree. I have such a low opinion of Alex Rodriguez that even thought I find Selena Roberts a hack and her book garbage, I think everything she says is a very real possibility. That being said, as long as he hits, I don't really care all that much.

In other news, I was watching the Robbie Thompson play last night, and honestly, had he *not* pushed Swisher, Nick would have been out by a mile anyway, so it was worth a shot.

[17] I would add that if the team is successful, ie gets past the first round of the playoffs - I'll set the bar relatively low - then I don't care too much about A Rod's shenanigans vis a vis the Yankees. (I'll still probably be irritated or perplexed personally though.)

A Rod having a great individual year is nice, but I've seen that before and while it was impressive, it'sultimately unfulfilling. I want the Yankees to win, not A Rod to mash. If both happen, great.

[18] Oh, I'll always find the A-Rod circus and his role in making sure everyone knows about the A-Rod circus irritating, but I can begrudgingly accept it.

[0]

I originally read the title as "Bring Hitler the Fatted Calf ...."

(which, by Godwin's Law, would have rendered this entire post/discussion moot)

[16] See, the flaw in that counter on your part is that people know very little about me to develop an honest frame of reference of me. I could be anything here, you can find out some wonderful things about me or some very ugly things about me if you really knew me. But to say to the banter that I did something in high school will be a hard thing to rebut, we agree. But, you are taking this to an extreme because I am not known here well enough to provide any proof against your allegations. And, quite frankly, I doubt the banter'ites care all that much about me anyway.

Let's compare it to something else, most people of above average intelligence know that Obama isn't a muslim. The majority feel this way, correct? However, there's still a select few that see Obama in Arab clothing - as a sign of respect to their culture - and automatically associate him with Islam, despite evidence to the contrary. In this instance, we've seen enough "good things" from Obama to believe that he isn't lying to us so we've developed a frame of reference of trust and give the President the benefit of the doubt.

Think about that for a second and see if you get the point I'm trying to make.

There's very little that A-Rod has done, as far as this Yankee fan is concerned, that has merited the same level of trust to be put on A-Rod. That level of trust exists for players like Posada, Rivera, Jeter, Matsui, and to a lesser extent even Pettite and Pettite lied (initially) about PED usage. If ARod had a great body of evidence, then he would be lumped into that same group.

I don't think it's as complicated as you make it, I am simply judging A-Rod by his actions and what he's done. I am not going to make excuses for him. I still support A-Rod and I want him to do well, but it doesn't mean I can not be bothered by his actions.

When you say "Anti-Rod team", that has such a negative connotation and you are already contributing to the banter defamation of 'Dimelo' :-) Albeit indirectly.

I just think of myself as a realist, I look at what A-Rod has done and don't look to make excuses for him. I guess I'm anti-Texiera too, cause I've been saying that 'this effen guy really sucks' (a lot) lately. Am I anti-Angel Berroa or Anti-Gardner too? I just look at them as what they are, does that make me anti-X? You want to know who is anti-A-Rod? Red Sox fans, fans of other teams. I'm not anti-A-Rod, I just don't look at him as the same kind of superhero as you do.

Yikes, didn't mean to kick off an A-Rod vs. Jeter debate! (And, [13], Dimelo, I was kidding with the Bible reference - it was deliberately overblown). I can't see any reason why fans have to choose one over the other. I mean, yes, Rodriguez is obviously the better overall player, but I don't see why that has to take anything away from Jeter's accomplishments, which are (probably) first ballot HOF caliber.

One thing on Jeter, [1] though he's been off this year, only two AL shortstops have a higher VORP than he does so far - http://tinyurl.com/pj7dxx. (Those would be Marco Scutaro and Jason Bartlett, and if Jeter doesn't pass them both by the end of the season, barring major injury, I'll eat my Bernie Williams bobblehead). Granted VORP doesn't take defense into account. Still, though I think Jeter's decline probably will be a big problem for the Yankees down the road, I'm not convinced that it is yet.

Dimelo, I actually think I'm being realistic: what we 'know' about celebs is what we are fed. It is also affected by attitude and prejudices of various kinds (his salary, for one, his neediness for another). Unless you are a friend or close acquaintance of the given celeb, what you think you 'know' is filtered through people like Selena Roberts. In NY there was also (as Emma ruefully notes) a kind of choosing sides from day 1 regarding Jeter and Rodriguez, which I found just silly ... and that might be why I jumped on PJ this morning (sorry if it sounded harsh) for his reviving the 'whose team is this'.

When you say you are anti-Teixeira, you are back to the language I think we SHOULD talk here. You aren't saying (I hope) that Tex is 'a phony' (which is your statement on Alex Rodriguez, and why I don't feel I'm slandering you with the Anti Rod line, especially after your strongly expressed views on his press conference).

But on Tex I am assuming you just mean 'he's a bad ballplayer' and we can debate that pretty easily (and we'd disagree!). But the line you take on Alex Rodriguez gets WAY out of that debate, and that was my point. It is about the person.

I am so far from seeing him as a superhero, it is actually funny. MY point is, I don't need to see him as either a wonderful human being OR a 'phony' ... I don't feel any framework for really evaluating these people in their personal lives. I don't know enough, and what I know is - as I said - heavily filtered. (That filtering can be positive, or negative, but it is there.)

Well, how media-filtered were

A Rod opting out during the world series
A Rod taking steroids and
A Rod being less that honest about it
A Rod yelling "ha" to try and make a player drop a fly ball
A Rod slapping the ball out of a player's glove
A Rod kissing his reflection in a photo spread

?

Those all seem pretty cut and dry to me. Of course there is some sketchy stuff out there, but I think the majority is pretty unfiltered. All the things listed above I saw with my own two eyes, except the actual taking of steroids, which he admitted to publicly.

Look, I don't think everyone needs to have a problem with A Rod, in fact I've gotten used to his loony existence and more or less accept it as part of the Yankee universe, but that's just it. Denying that the guy is "unusual" at best and a freak at worst is perverse.

1. Screwed up agent situation, and it is pretty clear when he got in touch with Yankees NOT through his agent, he knew it was a mess.

2. Oh, please.

3. Oh, PLEASE! (Like everyone else is? Like we KNOW the truth?)

4. Kick him out of the game. I thought it was hilarious, almost kid-like. I mean, when a 1st baseman fakes a throw back to the pitcher and then swoops to tag the unwary runner, or when the old hidden ball trick was used (wonder when the last time it worked was?) or the catcher darts back in while faking a pitch out ... aren't these plays that embarrass the 'victim'? And when they tried to spin it as 'someone could get hurt' ... dumb and lame beyond words. This stupid example is exactly what I am talking about as to the dislike of the man filtering things he does. Someone got hrt when Ty Cobb used sharpened spikes to slide, or Bob Gibson went head-hunting to claim the inside of the plate.

5. And this makes him a phony? Got it. And Reggie's hipcheck of a ball made him a Yankee hero, didn't it? Memo: use hip, not hand! Be a soccer player!

6. Never saw it myself, but it has to be, surely, a self-aware exercise in playing the media. You forgot that he walked in the park with his shirt off, too. And he was the first Yankee ever to get involved with other women while married. And the first to have a famous media figure woman associated with him, too! Do some thinking about Dimag and filters ... but make sure to learn what a monumental jerk Joe D evidently was, then compare him to your accusations against Alex Rodriguez.

All this aside ... your first four and the sixth ARE media filtered, Hawk! We read them as assessed by reporters, we assess his press conference based on whether we think he's a bum or the first guy to ever admit it. We decide he's either overcoached by handlers OR too needy and vulnerable (see the quote with Jeter from yesterday ... that's COACHED?)

We do not 'know' any of these people. Sometimes a piece gets written that seems illuminating ... Esquire did one (not flattering at all, but judicious) about LeBron last year, and one on Kobe (actually made him look a LOT better than usual media image). Read them, and think about egos. There's a filter-watch on these, too, but occasionally you read a piece that suggests the writer went in eyes open, and wrote honestly and well. But from the beat press needing stuff and more stuff? I doubt it. If you do a little reading in the history of the game, track Ted Williams' relationship with the Boston press - and fans.

[22] I didn't think you were using it literally, I was confused by [1] but not by what you wrote.

[23] I really don't get that. Am I suppose to believe that Tom Cruise isn't a loon? Your defense of A-Rod makes no sense, you are basically saying we shouldn't believe a word we hear about him because we don't know him personally. Have you ever had a manager come from another department? Don't you ask your peers about him? You might not believe someone because of their motives, but it helps you develop that "framework". The framework that exist currently is one that was created by A-Rod.

My simple point is that we've heard enough about A-Rod to form an opinion, whether you choose to believe it then that's strictly your call.

I also think you missed my point about the usage of the preface "anti" just cause you don't agree with someone.

[25] Why has the media been so unfair to him? What's the reason? Do you see any wrongdoing in anything A-Rod has ever done?

[25] Ted William was a prick to the media, that's why the evil media made him into a popsicle. I wonder what they'll do to A-Rod.

[27] I think I covered that, and I believe it goes back to texas ... I'd be rich if I had a nickel for every late-cast sportscaster who takes a shot at 'the richest contract in baseball'... and when you added tha existing issue to the yankees swooping in (Evil Empire, remember?) and taking him, richest team and richest contract ... it was a slam dunk, game over.

He used steroids. It was wrong. He did it among an increasingly obvious number of his peers, at all levels of the game. All were wrong. The era is defined by it. Not one other thing in the list Hawk offered seems other than trivial. (Except the claim, unsubstantiated, that he lied at the press conference.)

Tom Cruise is an interesting example (I AM thinking about what you say, just not agreeing, Dimelo) because I do have a sense he's a loon, but I fear my attitude to Scientology affects that. I also (back to my point here) am aware of how long all of this was masked by media filters retained by studios, and how old the Hollywood history of doing that is, even to faking marriages for some. Nothing cirted here or elsewhere about Rodriguez has taken me nearly that far. But I acknowledge that others can differ, I am only arguing that some awareness of how little you really know might be useful. I mean, I hate Varitek, but am amusedly aware this is just a Yankees/Sox fan thing, and I KNOW Jeter and others don't hate him at all. I have heard enough about Pierzynski to dislike him a lot, and read more than enough about Dimaggio, though he, too, was shielded all his life. Alex is the OPPOSITE of shielded, everything is exposed,. turned bad, weird, negative. Even the exchange that Pete Abe quotes from yesterday seems innocuous, trivial -- and he spun it into 'weird, man!'

Williams, sorry, was abused, assailed, screwed over by the Boston press which in those days was far worse than the Yankee press (who sucked up to Dimag, a MUCH worse human being). Williams was proud enough and individual enough to not play their game, and went silent on them ... your 'spin' right here is exactly my point, really. They were pricks to him, Dimelo.

Rodriguez cares too much, and lives in a different era. No Yankee media protection to be found. Every moment is analyzed. Frankly, I half-expect it to ruin him. It is fascinating.