When Hinske was on the Sox, I remember thinking 'why can't we get bench players like that?'. Well whaddayaknow. Although, I guess the memory of his ROY season has me overrating his ability. He has exactly a 100 OPS+, but dead average should mean an above average bench player.

What happened to him? He showed such promise as a rookie. 650 PA, 24 HR, 119 OPS+. In 2006, he managed a 114+ OPS. Anyway, it seems we got him for nothing, he has some pop, and can play 3rd and OF, which makes him a good fit for us. Let's hope he likes NY.

Rain. Blech.

Forecast is awful around here. People are reporting penny-sized hail. Hopefully it's not that bad down there.

Cashman said he realized the Yankees needed more options when Girardi was forced to pinch-hit Gardner last week. That's why he went after Hinske.

[1] Oh no, now you've done it!

Jeez... Cano still in the 5 hole with Swish batting 8th. I'm thinking less and less of Girardi all the time (the William Effect?).

[4] Swisher batting 8th is...perplexing...

IF there is a game mo is throwing out the first pitch (according to petey)

Pirates and Nats finally do the Nyjer Morgan / Lastings Milledge deal .... interesting, from both sides.

They really should drop Cano in the batting order. At least put him after Posada.

7:45 projected 1st pitch.

this was funny from Petey

• Brian Bruney shaved his mustache. He wanted to lose it a few days ago because he hasn’t been pitching as well as he wants. But he had a bet with Phil Hughes that he would keep it until the All-Star break and didn’t want to give in.

But Hughes, being a magnanimous guy, cut a deal with Bruney. So Bruney shaved it off 15 minutes ago abd Hughes will soon get a black Bose Sound Dock for his iPod. No fool is Hughes.

If I were Bruney a Bose Sound Deck is small price to pay for being able to shave that 'thing' off my lip ...

[5] weakened by the ear infection???

otherwise, I gots nothing ...

since girardi had to juggle the line-up so much last year i think he is *desperate* to run out a fairly consistent line-up this year. so i think it is going to take something drastic for him to move cano down. but he really should do it - any given line-up may not make that much of a difference over the course of the season, but it could in any given game and the al east is looking to be competitive all year.

[9] hughes better hope none of bruney's stache ends up in his sound dock

[6]

I'm struggling trying to remember another instance of an active baseball player throwing out the first pitch.

@ 1

And three years late they've got him!

@ 2

Fucking moron. So now the manager will have the ability to pinch hit a guy OPSing .750 instead of a guy OPSing....

.750.

Brilliant.

[9] Wow, I wonder what the original bet was?

[12] the only one i can think of is that nujob kevin millar when he was with the o's for that red sox playoff game

i can't think of anyone who might actually play in that game like mo

[13] don't you mean a guy OPSing .740 instead of a guy OPSing .790?

As for Hinske at 3B, we really need to kill that meme. He's played all of 130 innings (or 14 whole games) there over the last four years. A spot start is too much. He's passable, maybe, for a few innings here and there.

So they traded for another lefty OF/DH who can't hit more than anyone they already have.

Brilliant.

Smoltz looked absolutely dominant in his first inning against Batlimore. The Rays are already up 1-0. This is going to be a very difficult division.

Andy Phillips, foreign player studmuffin, hit his first homer in Japan.

@ 16

Are you trying to enrage me even more?

There's barely a difference. But if anything I'd give the edge to Gardner b/c he can turn a walk into a triple. Yeh, Eric Hinske won't be doing that.

Just idiotic. I really haven't been this infuriated by a non-move since Terrence Long.

[17] We'll see if the meme proves accurate or not. I suspect that we will see him start games at 3B this season...time will tell.

[20] you're enraged because they got an extra bat for nothing? believe me, i don't have any faith in eric hinske. but why would anyone be enraged about it?

[20] You do seem agitated. Have you been drinking from the same water fountain as Mattpat?

[20] not trying to enrage. but at some point you have to admit that you just make numbers up.

[19] woo hoo for Andy!!

[22] Enraged is the new "meh?"

: )

This is going to be a very difficult division.

Even more reason to flush ABs down the toilet!

Nah, but this is a very talented team...for $200 million. Of course, william will be the first in line with a Girardi pitchfork when the season ends badly.

This is not a championship club. Not when they think an upgrade is Hinske for Pena.

Pete Abe is now reporting an 8:05 first pitch.

[19] Must be the fried spiders...

: )

damn, i was all ready for baseball and first pitch got moved back again. :(

8:05pm now.

[23] Man are you a glutton for punishment. In your spare time, do you also bang your head against stone walls? :)

Hinske is an emigma to me. He could be good or just suck.

Andy Phillips homered in his first at-bat as a Yankee, didn't he?

Then again, so did Nick Green. And Bubba Crosby.

[23] I miss Mattpat...

Is he lurking these days, or just MIA?

[31] Worse, this *is* my spare time. Seriously, though, I do find the rhetoric of extreme anger to be very intriguing.

[33] I think so, at The Fens no less...

: )

[34] yeah i wondered too. especially when one of his favorites was in the news with the positive test at the wbc.

let's hope joba is preparing himslef for all the delays approporiately.

[37] Keep him out of the "Food Room," for Christ's sakes!

: )

[33] [36] I found a list recently of players who homer in their first AB with the Yankees (or maybe it was 1st pitch)--it was not the most impressive group.

I'll just be happy if this game is played.

[40] I'll be especially happy, though, if the game is delayed long enough for Hinske to join the team!!!!!

A-Rod gets the girl's phone number ....

Can I ask, when is the Bum Rush gonna wear off?
Have you tried Orange juice?
Pena is a .660 OPS guy. Over the last 2 years, Hinske has averaged a .770 OPS+.

And yes, Hinske is either a 85-90 OPS+ guy or a 110-115 OPS+ guy. Hopefully he will like YS RF.

[41] why do you think cashman got it to rain!?!

first pitch coming soon!!

[42] ???

[42] uh arod likes them old

[45]

Some high school girls softball team got to join the players on the field for the National Anthem, and each girl stood next to the Yankee at their usual position.

[46] Not according to David Letterman. ;-)

[44]

Brian Cashman: worst GM in baseball and evil genius behind global climate change!

; )

ooh ichiro - must be a special night for you mp :}

Okay, that was a really nice moment.

Jorgie moved up a little. Didn't think Mo could throw it all the way to the plate? ;-)

Game on!

[47] oh lol. too bad the joke was lost on me. :(

Man... these Umps are getting worse and worse. Is this there 2nd job?

What is Branyan doing batting .303?

... and how does Branyan only have 38 ribbies having 19 homers?

Russell the Muscle?

we don't need full count joba tonight

I get the feeling Chamberlain is going to drive me nuts tonight.

Dear Joba,
PLEASE THROW STRIKES.
Yours truly,
OldYanksFan
(speaking for all Banterers)

What is it about Joba and full counts.

Well, Yankee Stadium is in at least one Yankee pitcher's head, that seems obvious now.

[50] What happened? I just turned the radio on?

[56] Normally I would suggest that this results from playing on a team with a woeful offense (no men on base, no RBI). However, we cannot over look:

a. unclutchiness
b. lack of grit
c. poor approach
d. moral degeneracy

Well, that was a good pitch.

[46] I don't know what qualifies as old, but Kate Hudson qualifies as yummy ... and, lord knows, a step above Madonna.

Although, i *do* imagine a scene happening at some point during Alex's slump like the one in Major League:

I pissed off now, Kabbalah. I good to you, I stand up for you. If you no help me now, I say fuck you, Kabbalah. I do it myself.

[63] I think at least a - c are pretty common of a woeful offense, so it's not like these things are exclusive of one another.

When I watch Joba's starts, I feel like my brain is on overdrive. Not only do I monitor his pitch count and velocity, but there is also the tendency to read tea leaves (like Ichiro and Lopez pulling fastballs foul). Joba just had a rather tidy 1-2-3 inning, but I feel exhausted by it. It's very weird.

[63] nothing. in fact he struck out looking. i was just thinking of the ichiro banter from a week or so ago.

[67] But are you enraged?

cue complaints about jeter. hehehe

[48] LOL!

[69] Not at all...there's just something about Joba that makes me over analyze everything he does. Maybe it's the anticipation of his potential dominance, the desire to see him establish himself in the rotation or simply personal fondness. Whatever the reason, I sometimes feel like I am making the start with him.

[69] my gorge is tumescent, does that count?

johnny D!

[68] Ahhh...

As I mentioned on the last thread, Ichiro is really trying to make me look bad this year, what with having one of best seasons and all.

woah that was weird

nice play all around ... well, except for Morrow's throw

[76] The rare time when a feet first slide into 1B is a GOOD play.

[78] yep. I have been very impressed with Tex's baserunning.

Bah

...

Chris and Paulie, running down Kay .... good times, good times!

[67] I feel somewhat similarly, same with when Hughes started.

uh, yeah, *that's* a swing.

No wonder Joba doesn't throw the ball over the plate. That's just brutal.

blech.

double buggering blech.

That's a sick throw.

Relax. All is smooth and sweatless.

man, Alex has looked VERY good at 3rd since he had those games off.

STOUTLY DONE SON, STOUTLY DONE!

That was a nice DP...

I wonder why Girardi is married to Cano in the 5-hole?

[91] so does Kay ... if it's reached *that* point, surely Joey Joe Joe must be next!

[67] When I watch Joba's starts, I look for fastball command, and the bite on his slider. If he lacks the former, he goes to the slider to "get on top of the fastball." If he lacks both, he'll walk the ballpark.

So far, I see decent fastball command and a biting slider.

: )

[91]

that sounds dirty . . .

Except for 9th, the lowest OPS slot in the Yankee batting order has been the 5th spot. I think that's part of the reason why this offense has been relatively inefficient. I really think the simple act of moving Cano out of the 5th slot (his weakest batting slot in his career), the lineup would be better.

1st - .881
2nd - .924
3rd - .966
4th - .825
5th - .714
6th - .870
7th - .817
8th - .755
9th - .605 (Includes pitchers)

[94] No, "the two-hole" is the one that sounds dirty, Diane...

: )

Are the Yankees still playing the Mets?

I see the Mets have moved to Seattle.

The Yankees seem to have put an error hex on all their opponents lately.

Cano should bat 6th, period. I'm not in love with Posada's bat as some are, but I think he's more threatening than Cano. I bet at this point other teams are happy to see Cano up in a big spot.

"Dr. Strangegloves," I presume?

: )

94--You're so right, Diane....

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/therundown/assets_c/2009/02/09_five_hole_medium-thumb-254x368.jpg

I feel dirty and I realize that in some ways, Ichiro! is less than he seems (although in other ways, he's *more* than he seems) but I often find myself wishing we had signed Ichiro! rather than Matsui.

And I love Matsui. Anyone who APOLOGIZES to his team and fans for breaking his wrist diving for a ball gets a lifetime pass from me (not to mention his awesome sense of humor AND pr0n habit) but Ichiro's FRICKIN' ICHIRO!

Maybe I've just seen too many WBC games, but dammit I LOVE watching him play ... and talk. I mean who couldn't LOVE THIS

[100] Cano does seem more suited for the 6th or 7th slot. They'd never do it, but I'd love to try Swisher and his OBP in the 2-slot and move Damon down to 5th.

[103] He is fun to watch, no doubt.

I guess we'll have to accept two...

[103] Matsui was great before the injuries, but I agree with you..Ichiro would have owned New York..

Joba needs to take a look at Tim Lincecum, complete game with under 100 pitches!

[104] OK, I'll bite--what sorts of batters are suited for #5 v. #6 or #7?

Cano has the ability to hit 5th but seems to struggle in big spots. I would like to see us patiently keep him there for a while in hopes that he breaks through that psychological wall. I know it has risks, but if he can break through that could be huge come pennant time.

[103] I've been very happy with Matsui, even in spite of his recent injury history, but I do agree it would be fun to watch Ichiro on a daily basis. He seems to have so much confidence, and that's reassuring as a fan.

[104] CRAZY TALK!!!!

=)

Or just move Posada up.

damon
jeter
teix
alex
po
matsui
swish
cano
gardbrera

is the way i'd go ...

[110] Well suited was a poor choice of words...I should have said Cano has performed much better in those slots over his career.

Am I imagining things or is Joba is quickly developing a reputation for letting shitty little hitters hurt him?

pastadiving ...

Back to my earlier point, giving up a HR to Ronnie Cedeno really worries me. How can a pitcher with Joba's stuff do that? Does that mean that Joba doesn't really have his stuff?

Joba has been consistently good, but I am going to wait to see a line like 8 2 0 0 2 10, a line that signifies DOMINANCE, before I start to believe he still has the insane upside--I'm a skeptic right now.....

When Joba's pitching on the road, I want him in the rotation. When he's pitching at home, I want him in the eighth.

Actually, my Joba to the 'pen jones has been filled by young Phil Hughes. That definitely seemed to make the need less glaring. I wonder if they'll switch at some point, like I ordered them to.

[110] Ichiro!'s a "cat".

Don't know if that makes sense ... but's he's a cat, in a JAZZ sense ... talented, confident, a-little-bit-cocky-but-good-(and)-quirky-enough-you-don't-care ... like OK TOKYO said, he would have OWNED New York.

Seattle's not big enough for him ...

[103] couldn't we have signed both?

[112] i'm not trying to be argumentative here because i'm torn on this, but what if rather than moving cano, cano started hitting as well as he's hit in the 6th or 7th etc spots in the 5th? would you leave him there then? it's hard to figure out what the balance should be between a guy who can drive in a runner from 2nd or even 1st and a guy who will get on base more but not get as many hits.

....the current Joba seems too vulnerable to taking a lot of pitches and sitting fastball.

[109] Every player hitting #5 through #8 in the Yankees' line-up tonight has an .800+ OPS for both the season and his career. So on those grounds, I see little difference in who has the ability to hit 5th. I would tend to bat Posada earlier in the lineup because I think that he's the best of the group, but that's splitting hairs.

The real issue seems to be if Cano does in fact have some sort of psychological thing that prevents him from hitting well in the 5th spot (or is this some weird statistical fluke). If so, then just move him down and make him comfortable.

[116] I disagree. I think he's been anything but consistent. Unless you mean consistently 6 innings and under!

[116] That's what I am waiting for too. Each time Joba starts, I keep anticipating that this will be the start that he really emerges, but instead his outing mostly seem to resemble a quality start. Maybe Joba is just going to be pretty good and not Gallardo, Lincecum and Billingsley. That wouldn't be such a bad thing, but then it does raise the question if he'd be better off in the bullpen.

[115] sometimes yes, sometimes no ...

it really *IS* puzzling.

however, in general, that game in CLE is the only game this year where Joba has been ANYTHING like the Joba that took the mound EVERY night before the game he walked off the mound in Texas.

Young pitchers will break your heart ...

[112] Ah, I see.

[121] Maybe stop looking at those grounds then, and you'll come around to the truth.

Ichiro speaks better English than Yogi :-)

More warning signs...Joba falls behind Lopez and nibbles with the slider. He doesn't seem to have any confidence in the fastball, and quite frankly, I don't believe him. Pitch FX has him around 91-92 quite a bit, which isn't great. What happened to the great fastball?

[127] Anyone whose favorite English phrase is "August in Kansas City is hotter than two rats in a fucking wool sock" is 'teh AWESOME' to me.

[128] Texas?

[118] haha very apt description of ichiro cult.

it's still hard for me to discern if any of joba's "issues" are about his stuff or his approach

[119] The sample is big enough that it really make me think that batting 5th might be a mental thing for Cano. If he is hitting well in the 6th or 7th slot, I'd rather leave well enough alone and use someone else to bat 5th.

Wow @ night-n-day Joba in that frame...

: /

128--My one consolation is that the fastball seems routinely to hit 94-95 in the 5th-6th, and that it's a problem with getting completely loose which might go away in time....we'll see if velocity increases tonight.

[94] I want to go out drinking with Diane

[123] To be fair, if you look at Lincecum's game logs from his age 23 season, he didn't have a single "dominating start" (at least if the hypothetical line that you proposed is our working definition of dominant). And he finished the season with a 4.00 ER. Gallardo had one such start his first season (age 20), though he has a a few this year. Billingsley had perhaps one late in his second year (only 7 innings, but no runs and plenty of Ks).

Joba threw just as hard as Morrow in college, but the former is living at 92, while the latter is 94-97. With each passing start, I am getting increasingly concerned that something might be wrong.

[131] I would argue that it's "approach" Ms October, ever since he was told to "hold back" by Burnett...

Perhaps it's fear of re-injury.

*shrug*

[126] And what would the truth be?

[131] I mean hell, he came out (in the 1st WBC) and said (and I paraphrase) Korea-will-NEVER-beat-Japan-in-30-years.

What happened?

Well, Korea beat Japan.

Then they beat them again.

But when it was win or go home (in the semis) he went 3-5 and Japan beat Korea enroute to the championship.

In 2009, when the two teams met again for the crown, it was Ichiro! going 4-6 with the championship winning hit.

That's my best baseball moment EVER. Watching him get that hit at Dodger's Stadium, faced with 30,000 screaming, chanting, thunderstick-banging Korean fans ... he laced a 2 strike single up the middle and won the game.

I'm a total fanboy, dontchaknow???

[136] What hypothetical line did I propose?

[137] what of [134] though? it's not often that a power pitcher throws significantly harder in the later innings, particularly not one known for throwing gas in short relief. i think there's a good possibility it's a mental thing, that he thinks too much about how he has to preserve energy, and then he gets caught up in people complaining about how he can't go deep into games, and it's just a cycle that gets worse and worse. if that's so, i think you have to wonder what the pitching coach and manager tell him, and hope that he'll overcome it and just trust his body enough to let it fly early in the game.

Joba just throws way too many pitches. It's like watching Victor Zambrano: less the 15 walks , 2 hits, and 4 k's per game.

[137] wait, *now*, really?

I'll just say ... go back and look at the starting gamelogs "pre" Texas (take them as a whole) last year and then look at his starting gamelogs this year (again, as a whole) ... he's NOT the same guy.

If it weren't for the CLE game, this would be like the fish-slapping-dance level of ridiculobviousness.

I mean, it's not like he's had public issues with getting warm or anything ...

[141] I forgot to address [116] as well, the post with which you agreed in [123]. In [116], NickL claimed to want to see:

"to see a line like 8 2 0 0 2 10, a line that signifies DOMINANCE"

I assumed that you quick agreement with the post ("That’s what I am waiting for too") meant that this was the sort of line you were waiting for as well.

[142] I am at a loss for Joba's inconsistency from inning to inning and even within innings. Sometimes it almost seems as if his better fastballs wind up getting hit harder, so maybe he is dialing it down for location? I really don't have any answers. I just wish Joba would establish himself as a dominant starter...the kind the blows through lineups like the Nats, Braves, Mets and Mariners.

I think Ichiro is highly intelligent and very self possessed. I think he can turn it on and off. As long as he plays on a crappy team, you will never see him in overdrive. If he were leading off for the Yanks or Sox, I'll bet he could hit .400.

What a difference watching both these 3rd basemen, seriously.

[145] That's not a dominant line...that's a ridiculous line. I was thinking something more like a game score over 60 (off the top of my head).

[146] i think patience is warranted

[149] Ah, ok. I was confused when you wrote "that's what I'm waiting for" in direct response to the post.

William... Joba is trying to learn how to pitch. The fact that he throws harder in the 6th then the 1st tells you he is pacing himself. He's a stud. Give him time and stop overanalyzing every time he farts.

there are several variables involved with joba.
- he had a shoulder injury
- he has moved from starter (ml) to pen to starter
- he is a young pitcher who is still in a place where inconsistency is to be expected
- he *seems* to improve velocity as the game goes on
- he is in love with 1 of his pitches (slider)
- he has had several catchers, managers, and pitching coaches in a few years
- he got advice from burnett :}

i really don't think we can completely pinpoint what is going on with him. he has not been *dominant* but he has been solid

[149] For what it's worth, he has had 4 starts with a gamse score of 60 or higher this season, with a high of 70 (against Detroit on April 29). They have been relatively equally spaced throughout the season, in starts 1, 4, 7, and 10).

[150] It definitely is warranted...it's not like Joba isn't pitching well. Still, there is such a desire to see him be more dominant that when he is just quality, it becomes very disappointing.

[151] I was also referring to dominance, but my own definition, which I didn’t explain.

[152] I understand and accept that, but why does that mean his velocity and movement both seem to be off from previous levels? I admit that I, and most, overanalyze Joba, but some of the questions are legitimate.

[154] MP... you simply MUST stop pointing out all the flaws in Williams posts. Really... it's unacceptable.

I love how Paul O'Neil doesn't even know how many visits are allowed by any one of the bench coaches. I love that guy! He's the anti-pompous Michael Kay.

[153] Very well put, Ms October! I would only add he needs the confidence he had in the pen in '07, too. I'm not seeing that in the least as a starter, unless he makes a diving catch shaking the Earth, and doubles up the runner getting back to 2B, or K's 100 Red Sox in an inning...

: )

[156] How exactly does [154] point out a flaw in my post? I am saying that their aren't any...one of the best things about an intelligent and respectful forum is you can vet your own idea...but [154] doesn't really seem to point them out.

look, I'm a fanboy; what I really want is for Joba and Hughes to be CLEARLY BETTER than Lester and Bucholtz......

ok, time to bust this one open!

[159] Should be "I am NOT saying..."

[160] Then you are setting your sites low.

sigh ... again.

go back and review his gamecasts(starts) from last year, pre-Texas, and *this* year (excluding CLE).

(and I say this because I did review random starts from each year)

they are NOTHING like each other.

to my mind, there are 2 possibilities

1) his shoulder is OK, but he isn't confident in it when throwing the FB, therefore, he's afraid to let the FB rip

2) the shoulder isn't OK, but in such a way that sometimes he can throw as he did prior to TEX, most of the time he can't.

As to which it is, I *DON'T* know, but to sit here and "la-la-la-la-la there's nothing FUNDAMENTALLY different", is just silly.

and now I'm done on this ...

Swisher tries to pull too much in the Stadium, I think.

[160] hey i want joba to be better than pedro '99. and he is frustrating me right now. but i hesitate to say that anything is wrong with him, or that anything should be done to shake things up with him. he hasn't been terrible, he's been above average. so let's give him some time.

Spanky McSkittles!

[158] thank you pj. i had a slight concern that having so much success in the pen might impact how joba handles the ups-and-downs as a starter (not that it is necessarily happening but it may be).

Yankees need to score here...

HEAD CHEESE!!!

[163] sometimes you just lose confidence in yourself, for no apparent physical reason. sometimes something interrupts a good streak (like a minor injury) and then you lose it mentally. and then sometime you find it again. there are more than 2 possibilities here.

[168] presumably you mean more than 1 run

[169]

Provolone!

[159] Well, you did say that you were looking for signs of Jobadiminance, which you defined as game score > 60. I pointed out that he has had four such games this season, not all from early in the season. Hence, signs of Jobadominance.

I agree with those who complain that he should be more efficient and go deeper into games.

===

[156] Be careful, OYF, I do not want to be associated with certain posters who target William, seemingly out of some sort of malice. I'm just trying to talk (and debate) some baseball!

[171] I am ashamed to admit that I almost feel content with that dribbler by Melky. Considering all the help the Yankees have gotten from opponent's defenses (or lack thereof), I am not yet convinced the offense is back on track.

blah - not so good

Not such a good night for the captain so far. Grrr...

Bases loaded, no outs, and scoring one run on a "pfft" is unacceptable!

[170] doesn't that fall under 1 ... he doesn't trust the shoulder?

I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to figure out how someone can have a game like the CLE and then have a game, like, well ... most of the games he's had this year

and, without a doubt, you're right ... there are more than 2 choices ... there's another one that I didn't put down ... 3) there's a mechanical issue that isn't being addressed ... lord knows Joba has a motion that screams out 'future shoulder issues' ... anytime you see him throw from a side angle, it's NOT pretty

WTF was that?

[173] I meant on a consistent basis, not 4 times out of 15 starts. Also, two of those games scores were exactly 60.

Also, rest assured that no malice is inferred. Quite the opposite. I have no problem with someone pointing out legitimate flaws in my logic...I'd be a fool to think there are none.

Wow...good throw by Jorgie.

safe, but that was the best throw i've seem from cletus in a while ...

And a much worse throw there.

that?!?!?!? not so much ...

Gardy, I hope you're taking notes...

[178] no i'm saying maybe the shoulder injury really was nothing but it interrupted his groove and now he's in a bit of a funk (for him (hopefully)). maybe it has just snowballed like i said in [142].

Why is this is game!!

[181]
[183]
DAMN YOU!!!

Always 1 step ahead!!!

What a waste having Ichiro on Seattle. For International relations sake, Ichiro should be traded to the Yankees.

I'd like to whine about how if Joba fields that ground ball, a run doesn't score, but if the Mariners could catch the ball, the Yankees might not have any runs either.

[189] if only the us and japan could patch up their devastating feud of the last half century!

[186] again, i'm not being argumentative, but have you looked at the gamelogs from the games last year?

they're STARTLINGLY different from *almost* EVERY game this year.

When a pitcher has had a shoulder problem in between, "WHY?" seems a very ominous question to my mind ...

Look, I recognize patience is needed.....yet, once again, here we have Joba against a weak offense and we're now hoping for 6 IP 2ER as a best-case scenario. Has he looked dominant once this year? I don't think so.

Was away..Ichiro stole 2nd and 3rd? But Jorge had a good throw to 2nd??

[193] dude, CLE.

it ain't *much* (see EVERYTHING i've posted in this thread), but it's *ONCE*.

It seems like every 2-2 count is a breaking ball in the dirt.

[192] i'm well aware of the difference, statistically and aesthetically. and i'm not trying to be argumentative either- i agree that it's extraordinarily frustrating. i'm just saying that there's no way to know for sure what it is, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the shoulder. of course it might. but we have no idea.

A 3-2 breaking ball to Griffey? Really?

ugh let's not fritter this away because of a soft comebacker to the mound, some stolen bases, and a walk to the still hefty kg jr

It's almost have if Joba doesn't throw a fastball?

[195] he was pretty good in that boston game except for the 3 run hr in the 1st

Cleveland, OK, but only 5 Ks in 8 innings. I'm talking about signs of dominance. There were a few innings against the Sox, iirc..........

for chrissakes

oh boy you gotta catch that melky

i’m just saying that there’s no way to know for sure what it is, and it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the shoulder.

But, well, we *can* say that.

We don't know why, but because Joba 1.0 (pre-TEX) is completely different from Joba 2.0 (2009 version), we *can* say that night (and thus the shoulder issue that happened then) is the issue.

We don't know why ... physical, mental, mechanical ... but we *do* know something *isn't* the same before-and-after.

I am really at a loss...a complete loss.

I'm listening on the radio, so I can't use my own eyes, but it sounds like there have been a disturbing number of "fly ball" singles by the M's.

[207] if you start with the premise that even 1 is disturbing - this has been very disturbing

207--I feel the same way, but realistically, nothing S & W say counts as evidence......

[202] not even Nolan Ryan struck out 2 guys EVERY inning, even the games where he dominated ...

The Joba of the night of CLE had the stuff to dominant any and EVERY lineup he would ever face.

In that sense, he's like the Joba that took the mound every night until he walked off the mound in Texas ...

[207] The balls haven't been scorched, but it's the nibbling that is killing him. He is throwing a 90 mph fastball and an 84 mph slider, and seems loathe to put either over the plate. I don't care that the results will once again be mediocre, but I am concerned about how mediocre his stuff has been.

Woulda been nice to score more than one last inning...

[191]

Comment of the Night nominee.

[212] Yep, but sadly this offense has not been very productive since that Fenway sweep.

I'm 100% with you re. the shoulder, Cult. This was a guy who could throw 95 mph fastballs effortlessly with some command--that's the best pitch in baseball--now he's become a guy with a league average fastball and a slider he can't get guys to swing at often enough.....

How many games has Joba pitched with a big lead?

I am not excited about this effort tonight...

I would like to see Girardi push Joba today and try to get him through the 6th. Even if he is inefficient he should still be able to get through the game under 110 pitches.

Especially considering the relative lineups, Morrow has looked so much better than Joba.

[205] but, again, it might have STARTED that night yet have nothing to do with it. i'm just throwing that out as a possibility.

[218] The Yankees need this win game...I wouldn't put any extra effort into getting Joba through the 6th.

Thanks for not running on Ichiro, Tex...

[220] We need to get Steve Lombardi on the trail.

[215] ok ... thank you ... it sometimes seems like I'm talking past people here ... it's a toss-up between Joba and Nick Johnson between my favorite Yankees prospects *ever* ... and I'm resigned (at-this-point) to the reality that Joba will *never* be the pitcher that he promised in 2007, which frankly, is the best yankees pitching prospect since 'the gator'.

like i said earlier ... young pitchers will break your heart ...

[221] I don't see it as extra effort. He's given up some soft stuff and a HR. I think this is a case of over-managing if Girardi doesn't let him start the 6th. Short leash, of course.

Cano needs to get a big hit!

personally i think joba's bigger problem this year is his control, which is nonexistent. also, we seem to be focusing on the texas game, but there was also an entire offseason (not counting his 2nd bullpen stint, which was quite dominant) between his dominant streak as a starter and now. perhaps there's more to it than the texas game.

why does Cano make my eyes twitch like Herbert Lum right now???

It's 5-hole-in-the-head Cano. What will happen?

[224] Buck up--even the Gator broke hearts. Check out his MiL peripherals and early starts, until he finally put it together in MLB...at age 26.

224--yeah, if you're a Yankee fan who cares about young pitchers, it's been a pretty tough [starts to count years.....gives up]

This swings by Cano are awful...why doesn't he hit line drives anymore?

You can tell there is something amiss in Yankees Universe when Freddy breaks out the skillet in the "fift"...

What a surprise.

You could see that coming. Cano has been killing this lineup. At some point Girardi has to realize it.

damnit cano - you are really working some nerves man

I would bat Swish 5th and Po 6th.

[235] i think we'll see some lineup shuffling very soon

[238] I hope so...but it has been three weeks of this. It shouldn't have taken so long.

[224]

I had a fondness for the prospect that was Jay Buhner.

Ken f****** Phelps.

Sigh :-(

I'm reminded of that strike zone diagram NoMaas posted...last year, was it? With the MLB strike zone, and the Robinson Cano strike zone (which was from the ground to the top of his head).

hi everyone.

the phillies have 3 errors in the game. they just made a nice play in the 9th inning and asshole chip caray shoots a load, screaming how the the phillies are making some unbelievable plays in this game, giving a major league effort! um, all their errors led to runs, jackass. and i would hope they'd give a major league effort, it being the major leagues and all...

and, btw, this game is a bit infuriating. swisher w/ the bases clogged. joba nibbling....

yeah, where the hell is MattPat?!

[231] Seriously. Not counted Wang, the last was who? Pettitte? And before that Righetti (and he was drafted by Texas), before Martin switched him to RP.

[241] nomaas = funny! i miss FJM...

you get that expected hail? hope your car is okay! : )

here comes groundzilla. great...

ground ball to 2nd, inning over. no runs. we know how it's gonna end...

so, joba for the 6th or no?

It's like this fucking game has been scripted to frustrate us.....quick! pool on how Hideki will make an out!

wow, this guy's gameday picture is as odd as his surname!

[230] mp, i love you, but you're not seeing what i'm saying.

it's not that I have a problem with Joba struggling ... he wasn't the 2nd coming of Walter Johnson pre-Texas *last year*, but he did exhibit the tools that he had when he came up in 2007.

this year???

no.

if you wanna argue that "gator's" issue was that he lost 5+% (and think what that *means* for someone who could hit 95 *after*) on his FB between the minors (let alone his first STARTING stint as a ML player)and MLB, then when I'll admit that we're all the sadder for never having seen the Guidry that pissed fire and shot lightning bolts from his arse, as it were ...

[242] Knowing Mattpat, he broke his television during the last Red Sox series...

Can't blame him really!

: )

[246] easy. see the post before yours! do i win something from Bose?! ; )

Not only should this have been an overwhelmingly favorable matchup going in, but that Mariners have played like crap. It's not only frustrating, but incredibly worrisome that this is a 3-3 game. The Yankees have not played well against so very poor competition. What's going to happen when the better teams show up on the schedule?

[243] Check that. It looks like Yogi switched him to closer. The memory fails...

I loved Righetti, was sad when they switched him...

[250] maybe you should make a deal with bruney thelarmis!

[251] "What’s going to happen when the better teams show up on the schedule?"

Posada and Molina get hurt again, out four to six weeks?

*shrug*

...²

for fucks sake this is movie is on tv too much

he switched it up and grounded to 1st. damnit, i win nothing... : /

[244] There was a lot of lightning and thunder, but I didn't hear any hail.

ARRRRGHHHH. Lotta ducks on the pond, but we can't seem to get them home.

Man does Hideki look finished, yuck.

Matsui grounds out weakly to 2nd? Who would have thunk it.

[248] I love you too, man. I also get what you're saying.

I'm just telling you to cheer up. Few young pitchers hit the ground running, with no hiccups, no set backs, no injuries. Even the mighty Gator was a slow starter who, if you look at his MiL numbers, was very wild. I'm not saying he was injured...only that young pitchers will frustrate.

This kind of game has been a hallmark of this team.

I'd much rather see Aceves on the mound. Joba's stuff has tailed off so much that I don't trust him in this spot.

[251] <b<What’s going to happen when the better teams show up on the schedule?

The Yankees will lose, presumably.

[262] right! and *i'm* not saying he wasn't frustrating ... only that he wasn't so radically different, before-and-after an injury

=)

251--to be honest? I think we have 3rd place AL East talent--Pettite and Wang sucking up mediocre starts are probably going to doom us. Tampa and Boston look like the two best teams in baseball.

But we could be among the best 3rd place teams in AL East history....

According to YES, the Yankees are 14-67 in their 5-game winning streak. That pretty much means the reason the Yankees have won is because the competition has been pretty bad. So, yes, [265] is probably what will happen.

I'm afraid there is only one word to describe tonight's performance.

261--does it begin with "horse"?

That AB says it all for Joba...he gets ahead of a very bad hitter 0-2 and then winds up throwing a breaking ball on 3-2. Joba had nothing by the end of this game and shouldn't been allowed to put the go ahead run on base, especially because we know have to hope Cokey can get Ichiro.

[269] Or does it end with "able"?

[270] probably un-

[267] I don't think they have 3rd place talent, but I agree they are a 3rd place team if the current regime is maintained.

Hughes not available? Why not bring in your best pitcher in the pen to face Ichiro??

Cokey seems like the kind of pitcher that Ichiro eats alive.

[273] un ...

conceiv ...

[272] able!

oh, wait ... nevermind ...

Please give me Aceves or Hughes. Please.

[271] Hope is a virtue!

nice job edpcy

COKEY!

he's more than joey joe joe might make of him, but "Cokey" has been fantastic recently ...

Mailed-in?

Crap-fest?

Horseshit?

Bullshit?

Disgrace?

Farce?

Normal?

A little help?

: )

OK, we'll see if that Coke energizes the team....

[275] Hughes is warming in the pen. Maybe he's the 7th inning guy or something.

TB with a nice easy 4-1 in versus Toronto.

this game is excruciating.

[286] and boston just reached double digits in runs...

feh!

You almost get the feeling that if someone doesn't hit a HR, this game will end as a Loss.

With Joba failing to get through 6 again, I am sure the drum beat to return him to the pen will sound louder. I'd almost like to give Joba 15-days off to see if maybe he needs a rest. His starts are not helping this team.

I would argue that the collective IQ on this team sunk to double digits when Moose retired...

[288] according to what petey just posted the yanks are 9-5 in his games. not stellar - but not not helping the team. yes the pen has to work harder in his games, but he is not leaving games with a total mess going.
i would like them to take advantage of an off-day every now an then to give him and maybe others extra rest.

[288] mmmm, loud drum beats. me likey! : )

William, if we had either Joba or Hughes pitching well right now, I might feel differently--it's finely balanced. But picture the rotation in a seven-game series--would you take ours over either Boston or TB right now? I wouldn't. Bullpen? Over Tampa, only. Offense? Over Boston, only.
Just my opinion; obviously things are finely balanced. And I'm assuming that Ortiz will OPS around 900 the rest of the year.....

Lopez jogging down the line was a help.

OMG, you guys see the Muts' defensive "highlights" from tonight's game?! ugh.

[288] didn't we used to have an idea that it was better to bring up our young pitchers and let them settle in in the majors than to sign aging free agent pitchers who wouldn't actually pitch any better? you are expecting too much of joba too soon. how many pitchers, even future aces, began their careers as aces?

Hughes had better throw two innings, or even three if the Yankees score a few runs. Meanwhile, Sterling and Waldman seem to have ordained Hughes the new Joba--by that I mean that we get to hear endless arguments over why he should not move into the rotation ASAP.

[289] i was just about to type that i miss Mikey Moose. and i do...

[253] i did too ... i'll never *quite* forgive my parents for refusing to go to the 7/4 no-hitter i argued we should go to (with nothing else going on), but you *GOTTA* love that moment in Toronto where he turned and threw the ball over the CF wall (during the year where he set the saves-per-year record, no less).

[290] The pen has worked very hard in his games. Also, one of those wins was the Castillo dropped ball. Even though 8-6 isn't awful, it isn't very good either. I think Joba CAN be better, so I am tired for settling for what he has been doing.

[292] If C.C. and AJ are throwing well, I'd take my chances. I really believe that if this team was better managed, it would emerge as the best in the division.

[290] I see no rational way to define his starts as "not helping the team". Yeah, he should pitch deeper, but his starts, while frustrating to watch, have generally been positive.

well, i guess one sorta positive is we just had three of our young kids - joba, coke, hughes - throw 7 innings of 3-run ball. if our offense did what it should have w/ the bases loaded twice, we'd all be VERY happy with these kids. although Joba's in-game WHIP, is pretty brutal...

[295] I am not advocating trading Joba for Cliff Lee. Instead, I'd like to see him put on the shelf until after the ASB. Not only have his results against very weak competition been mediocre, but his stuff has been alarmingly pedestrian. Considering he is on an innings limit anyway, I think it makes sense to give Joba a blow and see if he can return with more strength and focus.

[300] i agree mp - the double negative probably made that unclear

[297] I wager he retired to create an algorithm to preserve his portfolio...

Now that's work!

: )

[302] maybe. but i don't think there's any evidence that he needs a rest. he didn't start out hot and get worse, he's been inconsistent. he doesn't start each game well and then tire, he seems to do the opposite. isn't it also possible that he needs more regular work as a major league starter?

Must score Damon.

[296] The irony is that if Joba was pitching well, there wouldn't be a need for Hughes to be a bullpen guy. The only thing creating the belief that the Yankees need a strong bullpen are starts like Joba's tonight.

alright jd - let's do somethig with this inning guys

we BEST find a way to plate johnny.

yeah, we used to dream about Joba and Hughes going back-to-back days. now, it's innings...

damn ripped it foul

Bruney up. I would let Hughes pitch two innings.

Not scoring Damon here would be unacceptable!

Pick him up, Al.

[305] The evidence I see is his stuff. It just doesn't look that good. He is going to need time off eventually, so why not now.

[312] but the next inning will be the 8th inning

alright alex

damn Tex, what happened to your bad self?!

[312] I agree. Let Phil go 2 for chrissakes.

[306] i'm getting a flashback to a moment in HS on varsity baseball, we had the winning run on second and Jimmy Russo coming to the plate ...

Jimmy Russo handed me his crucifix as he stepped to the plate

And I said ... "get a hit ... or Jesus gets it."

He did, dontchaknow???

How about an oppo gapper durble, Alex?

[313] we might be looking at "denial" then, pretty soon... : /

Why can't this team him with men in scoring position. When you think about how they have scored in this game, it's pretty scary.

[316] I know. I believe in plasticity.

That pitch was right over the plate!!!

alex, alex, alex ...

thelarmis check out johjima's catcher's mit - remind you of anything?

Boom!

I'll take it

1 for 11. : O

I'll take that too!

: )

Holy wow

Aaaahhhhhhh!

clutch-rod!!!

Thank you Arod....like it or not, this team's method of success has become almost singular: if Arod gets a big hit, they win. If he doesn't, they lose.

whomp

alex in the clutch!!

[322] Perhaps they are trying to impersonate the Rays, who scored only four run tonight despite putting 16 men on base. The Rays had to use a couple of HRs to get the runs, too.

Meanwhile, A-Rod drove in a runner in scoring position.

[334] They are overly reliant on him.

That swing was insane. That ball was almost at his shoulder.

Thank you, Alex!!! that's what he's supposed to do!!!

[326] unfortunately, i'm watching Red Sox Tonight, um, i mean Baseball Tonight. i don't get YES, or anything. is kenji's glove all red?

HORSECAINANDABLE!!!!!

bases empty. robbie will get a hit...

Bruney will come in, b/c you have to try and find a reliever who doesn't have it on any given night--it's an unwritten rule of bullpen management. Personally, I'd rather have my entire pen (except closer) expecting to pitch 2 innings per outing, but--

well ...

this ...

i was all ready to write that "the problem with arod was that he wasn't willing to rape-your-grandmother-while-punching-your-sister-in-the-face" but daaaaaaaaaaammmmmnnnnnn!"

[312][316] I would let him finish the damned game if at all possible.

[30] yeah - brrighter than the straw glove, but all red

So Robbie is capable of elevating a ball???

[315] i guess we just don't agree. i hope that the yankees are keeping track of his health, and i hope that he's being honest with them. but the stuff you talk about is the same stuff he's had all year. it's inconsistent and his control is off, but he shows flashes of the old stuff. maybe he could use rest. maybe they should move to a 6 man rotation. but your real problem is that he hasn't been good enough. he's been better than hughes was as a starter, but i'd bet you'd have a lot more patience with hughes. and that makes sense, because joba has more potential. but joba does have more potential! and he hasn't been awful. i think he, like any good young player, deserves patience when he hasn't been great for a half season.

Hmmm..the Red Sox with now an increasingly un-easy game against the O's. Unacceptable...for the Sox that is.

Kay, it's about discipline. If the doctor says Alex needs rest, you do it. End of story.

[337] Not sure why the Rays inability to hit with runners on base would have anything to do with the Yankees problems, but yes, it is nice to see Alex break through.

holy crap, i just saw the highlight of the A-Bomb. he crushed that fucking ball! didn't look shoulder high. i couldn't see the glove, ms. october. ya know, it's weird - i HATE the color red (no really, i do), but i love that glove!

did robbie's shot almost clear the wall?

YSIII seems to be playing pretty big of late.

damnit guitterez - don't race all those balls down

so, does joba come back to pitch the 8th? ; )

[352] Not really, but it was well hit. Po's was deeper.

[355] /Francesa ;)

[350] mk doesn't seem to be the bastion of discipline

[352] i don't like red that much myself - but i loved that that glove was red and it was just an awesome glove

[348] Actually, while Joba's stuff has been off from what he showed last year, I think his last 3-4 outings have exhibited an even greater drop off. Had those starts been against better lineups, I fear the results would have been pretty drastic. That's just a hunch of mine. I'd prefer to error on the side of caution and skip him for two starts.

stacheless bruney - let's hope no stache =throws strikes

Bruney in this spot is stupid...plain and simple. Hughes needs to pitch. The Yankees need to win. Having Bruney pitch doesn't satisfy either of those ends.

[348] but i’d bet you’d have a lot more patience with hughes. and that makes sense, because joba has more potential.

I'm not convinced that Joba has more potential. He has had more success early, that is for sure. But Hughes, who has battled injuries, is still younger than Joba. There are reasons why he was one the most highly touted prospects in all of baseball.

I think both have suffered from unrealistic expectations. Hughes managed to lower those expectations by scuffling. Joba now must live up to the even more ramped up expectations created largely by his first 24 INN of ubersuccess as a reliever.

Jeez, Girardi is way too formulaic.

I always thought that Hughes would be better than Joba because of his command and the late life on his FB.

I have more or less defended Girardi. Not leaving in Hughes is deeply, deeply wrong. Not only is Hughes the better pitcher right now, he NEEDS INNINGS.

bruney. 4 pitches, leadoff man on. NO walk? syntax error. does not compute!!!

I hate, hate, hate that Phil is not in here. I hate, hate, hate modern bullpen management.

this is frustrating

Hughes had thrown 9 pitches!

[364] I still think that he will be, when it's all said and done.

[359] it's not the worst idea in the world, i just don't think there's any need for it, and it might make things worse if he wants to be pitching.

meanwhile, girardi is indeed an idiot.

[361] yeah, i don't understand why Phil hasn't been going 2 innings at a time. that should be the m.o. with him...

I agree. Hughes should still be in. HORSECAINANDABLE!

Take him out, NOW!

Oh shit!

I am sorry, but this inning says it all about Girardi. Bringing in Bruney to fail in the 8th for the third straight time makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. This is exactly what I mean when I say the Yankees are being held back by their manager. It is so frustrating to watch this team not only battle the opposition, but their manager.

How anyone could support Girardi as manager is beyond me.

William, would you say that if they get 3 here, this is a Girardi loss? Cause I sure as hell would.....

At least Hughes will be fresh for his 1 inning on Thurs. Effin' Bollocks!! Put me on the screw you Girardi train.

now the word horseshit is extremely applicable

Why the fuck not let Hughes start the 8th and have Bruney standing by? Now we're screwed. Mo can't so 6 or even 5. This sucks.

What the fuck is Girardi waiting for?

[369] yeah, this is insane. girardi needs to be shelled for this. i'm pissed.

this is all on GI Joe...

great an intentional walk

Bruney has to come out, right? Aceves with the bases loaded? Or Mo for 5 outs?

[379] Yes, which is very much unacceptable.

It doesn't get higher leverage then this. BRING IN MO!

HE'S STICKING WITH BRUNEY!?

[377] I don't think there is any question. It's amazing how Girardi finds away to have a negative impact in every game this team plays. At what point do the Yankees wakeup and realize that their manager is hurting the team. The way he has managed this game is absolutely inexcusable. It screams incompetence. Bruney with the bases loaded and Branyan is a disaster waiting to happen.

And Mo sits fiddling in the BP while Rome burns.

this doesn't look good. we need strikeouts. c'mon bruney!!!

[386] Seconded.

[362] [364] i disagree. i hope they can both be good, but in their professional careers joba has been better, and has looked better. joba is 9 months older than hughes. does 9 months make you add that much to phil?

c'mon bruney you asshole

Bruney has absolutely nothing.

It's amazing, really. The organization created special rules to protect Joba from Torre. Then the organization endured all the heat and criticism, stuck with their plan, and converted Joba to a starter along the lines of the Santana-plan.

But now Hughes is absolutely banished to the BP, to used as the...7th inning guy?

WTF?

It's like a broken keeping the same time - I just knew I show up to bitching about Girardi.

Boo fucking hoo. His eighth inning guy isn't what he's supposed to be. Fire the manager!

ooh, i didn't know bases were juiced, then my laptop froze. we need a DP!!!

Arod gave the Yankees a win and now Girardi is serving up a loss. For all those who think the manager can't have as great an impact as a player, this is Exhibit A!

So funny! Keep it up.

Hahahahahahaha.

[398] this is exhibit a because it's the most obvious of all so far. not to quibble with you though, i'm sick of girardi myself. i still don't know who the replacement should be though.

[396] blah blah blah

[394] That's the thing...not only was it a horrible move to begin with, but he still left him in even after he performed so poorly. This sequence is the definition of managerial incompetence. I simply do not understand why Cashman and Hal sit back and watch Girardi mismanage this team.

[392] Joba has been better, and if he consistently threw like he did against Boston last July 25th, I would have been (or will be) wrong. My opinion is/was based on command, makeup, and as I said, the late life on Hughes's FB.

Jeez, Girardi sucks.

So Bum, you would have taken Phil out, after his 9 pitch dominant 7th... to bring in just-off-the-DL-and-hasn't-pitched-well Bruney? The problem isn't Bruney. It's that Bruney should not have been in the game. And that's on Joe.

Girardi teh suck.

Hahahahahahaha.

[400] I would do cartwheels for Showalter on an interim basis. Then, I would conduct an extensive interview process and not make a hire until I was blown away by the candidate.

Hughes threw NINE pitches... NO fucking reason to take him out. none...

girardi is a jerkoff...

[403] Don't feed the troll, please.

Kay is speaking the truth.

[396] what, in your own words, made you check to see if people were complaining about girardi?

[409] That's the definition of a troll.

Mat doubles. Gardner will PR.

@ 403

He's obviously seeing what he has in Bruney. I would have liked to have seen Hughes, sure. But what happens when he finds himself back in the rotation? They still have the same crappy pen. So Girardi has to develop the pen.

Exactly as he did in 2008. It's not his fault he was made a shit sandwich and asked to cook prime rib.

yeah a line drive from matsui!

PR Gardy now please...

NVM...

[408] But, I doubt anyone will press him hard. For some reason, that treatment is reserved for the manager of the Mets.

nice bunt swish - and clumsy pitcher

pinch runner. gardner. steal 3rd. plate him. Mo for the 9th. win the fucking game (in spite of the idiot manager).

[392] The nine months means something. Joba has had more success sooner, but he also was drafted out of college as a somewhat more finished product. He appeared in MLB as a flame throwing reliever and his transition back to starter has been very protected. We forget that Hughes was having a nice little season as starter when he was 21. He has been done in largely by injuries.

I still predict that when it's all done, Hughes will have the better career as a starter.

The Melk Man Delivers.

too many comments to back and read..why is Hughes out?? A-Rod is back, baby!!

wow, that worked...

there we go!

leche - the yanks really came out nice this inning

Huge hit by the Melkman.

@ 409

Because there was a tough spot. Of course it would be Girardi's fault even though his pen blows donkey nuts. Instead, let's Proctorize Hughes!

LECHE!!!

more. i want both of those runners to score. hear me? BOTH!!!

Sean White?? More like Gabe White!!!

AMIRIGHTORAMIRIGHTFOLKS?!?!

[426] he threw NINE pitches, dude!!!

c'mon Cap!!!

[427] Scream louder just in case they aren't listening!!

nice hit cap 2 runs in!

For some reason, that treatment is reserved for the manager of the Mets.

Hahahahahaha.

Maybe because one team is about to hit their high water mark on the season while the other is below .500?

Really, brilliant analysis.

I would like to think that the team is Girardi-proof.

How about Bruney for the 9th? Might be fun to see the Yankees bat in the 9th too.

[430] top 'o my lungs, buddy!!! : )

426--Proctorize Hughes by having him pitch more than 9 pitches in a game?
Really, Bum Rush, if you are going to invoke Proctor, you're not looking at the situation: that's textbook trolling....I mean, that's "there's a big hairy mofo under a bridge next to your name in the dictionary" trolling....

Yay @ lead... again?

*shrug*

meanwhile: teh Captain!

keep tacking 'em on guys, let's keep Mo outta this one...

[434] nah - mo won't be able to bat this game

Fire Girardi!

Hahahahaha.

[436] one of the great Gandalf lines. "You Shall Not PAAAAAASSSS!!!! : )

[439] Yeah! He already "pitched" in this one!

: )

i like this Sean White fella. good kid! ; )

I love the reactivity of the Matsuis.

wow jetes!

jeter got a bit lucky there

[433] Games like this make me wonder how good this team could be if they didn't have to overcome their manager's complete inability to run the game.

[426] "Proctorize Hughes"

That's um....misremembering how Torre (mis)used Proctor. To proctorize Hughes would be to have him more or less lead the league in appearances, using him again and again regardless of game situations, until his arm falls off. Sort of like what Torre is doing to Belisario this year.

However, to judiciously use him ever few days for multiple innings would maximize his value as a reliever and help build up his innings so he can transition back to the rotation.

There is now just about no way to justify burning Hughes tonight for nine pitches.

[441] you ok? did you eat the red rope licorice?

PeteAbe ain't the greatest strategist, but better then the bum:
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UPDATE, 10:41 p.m.: Hey, it’s a hit with RISP. Better yet, it’s a two-run bomb by A-Rod. Yankees lead 5-3.

I’d leave Hughes in, but they won’t.

UPDATE, 10:46 p.m.: That’s 13 RBI in eight games for Alex. Pretty amazing that he has 39 RBI already.

Bruney in. I’m saying in advance I don’t like this. Hughes was lights out, leave him in.

UPDATE, 10:53 p.m.: Like I said.

UPDATE, 10:56 p.m.: Here is what I don’t get: If you’re going to pitch Hughes in relief, then pitch him in relief. Let him pitch two innings, it builds up his innings and serves the purpose of winning games. Everybody wins.

He threw nine pitches in the seventh. Leave. Him. In.

Tex gonna blow #501 for Mo here?

[419] didn't joba only start pitching when he was like 17 or something? where does that factor into the age difference? and joba was pretty good in college. i just don't see how hughes is on a better projection than joba. i don't forget anything about either of them, i just think joba was always better and always seemed to have more potential.

[402] phil does have slightly better control, but i don't really know what you mean about late life on his fastball. he throws a pretty good cutter, but i don't think his fastball is better than joba's (except maybe when he's in the bullpen and joba's a starter). and joba definitely has a better 2nd pitch than phil, and probably a better 3rd and 4th. though, as i say, i do like phil's cutter. i'm also not sure about makeup. what evidence is there that his makeup is better? he hasn't gotten a dui yet?

Jeez... what a play at SS!

@ 436

And if you're going to assume Hughes is always available to pitch two innings, I'm going to point to two guys in their rotation who are iffy every time out. One of whom throws tomorrow.

i like this Sean White fella. good kid! ; )

was that good baserunning by the captain?

[448] I think Whitey Herzog once said that a manager can win or loss five games a year. So at this point in the season, maybe a good manager would yield two more wins, which is not unimportant.

alright mo time

@ 451

Let's see that PeteAbe push the manager on the question. Too bad he talks a big game on his blog then he's chicken shit in the clubhouse.

[453] didn’t joba only start pitching when he was like 17 or something? where does that factor into the age difference?

I'm not sure why it would matter when they started. What matters for any projection would be where they are at a given age, no?

Joba is "ahead" of Hughes now, but Hughes was ahead of Joba a couple of years ago. Time will tell if Joba really has more potential, or if Hughes will overcome his early injuries and "catch up".

[455] nobody assumed that. the kid threw NINE pitches. at the very least, let him start the 8th...

[459] would be nice if the mediots questioned him hard about that. i mentioned that earlier.

Two appearances for Mo in one game? Very iffy!

I don’t think there is any question. It’s amazing how Girardi finds away to have a negative impact in every game this team plays. At what point do the Yankees wakeup and realize that their manager is hurting the team. The way he has managed this game is absolutely inexcusable. It screams incompetence. Bruney with the bases loaded and Branyan is a disaster waiting to happen.

Hahahahahaha!

Yup, it was a disaster all right.

How many times does a guy have to be wrong before he learns to STFU. It's like Bill Kristol. Invade Iran!

Hahahahaha!

455--Hughes and Aceves should each be able to go 2, even into a 3rd if they're under 20 pitches after 2. They have starter type stuff. Let your wilder, two-pitch guys go a single inning (Robertson, Bruney).

Papelbon brought in in the 8TH inning .... Orioles within 1 now! 10-9 Sox

[459] That I couldn't agree with you more on. Kinda like how he'll call A-Rod "a liar" and "a clown" on the blog, yet that somehow never seems to make it into the postgame interview

Mo vs. Jr. = cool.

[453] Late life is kind of like a hop on the ball as it crosses the plate. You can't teach it. It has been part of what has made Hughes special even when his velo tops out at 92-93. He didn't have it at all in April of 2008, probably because of the rib injury. Again, if Joba is hitting 95-96 with regularity, then it's a different story.

As far as makeup, I mean that it has always been said that Hughes is mature beyond his years. I thought that would translate into him being a cerebral pitcher at a very young age with great stuff.

[460] "I’m not sure why it would matter when they started."

Bullets in the gun MP, bullets in the gun.

This is why they don't let kids (young kids) throw junk... except maybe in Japan...

Hasn't Joba already had TJ surgery?

[466] Palmer is killing the umpires.

[466] shhhh!!!! don't jinx it!!!

11-10 Orioles!!!

Pete's comment about Girardi:

"UPDATE, 11:00 p.m.: New game. Girardi managed them right out of a win there, at least for now."

Earlier he was complaining that Girardi didn't leave Hughes in for 2 innings after a 9 pitch 7th inning. I think I agree with Pete there, but I also thought they were making Bruney the 8th inning guy.

Perhaps I'm over analyzing the minutiae of everything that Girardi does, but I just want to have the sense that he's making informed decisions based on logic and reason instead of managing from the gut, which it seems he's doing. Granted, he'd already lifted Phil, and he didn't much of a choice, but to stick with Bruney there, but why lift Phil.

Now, if he says after the game that: (1) Bruney's our 8th inning guy and we'll continue to evaluate whether he's able to do that; and (2) I lifted Phil Hughes so he would be available tomorrow night, then I guess I'd like the move simply because it's based on some reasoning other than rote managing.

@ 462

They won't. The Yankees win and go 12 games over. The mediots aren't as stupid as certain commentators here. They know when they'd look foolish.

That's the funny thing. There are a bunch of mediots that don't like Girardi. They'd love to tear into his flesh. But with the injuries and the crappy pen, they know they can't since they're, you know, actually winning more often than not.

Markakis triples .... O's up 11-10!

464--could this guy be banned? Alex? Cliff? It's not like william and I never disagree, but the place for that nonsense is an espn comment box, not here.....

[470] Bite your tongue!! No, he has not had TJ.

[460] [469] still don't agree with either of you, but it really doesn't matter. i'm sure none of us would be disappointed if one is better than the other, as long as they're both good.

Markakis!!!

476--YES! And off Paps!

Let's go on a looooooooooooong winning streak!

Like a good pair of Levi's .... 501!

Mariano saves the game and his manager...he should get credit for two saves.

[478] Rotator cuff surgery then?

I could have sworn he had work done while at Nebraska...

Nice win.....

[479] I just want them both to be healthy and in the rotation for the next 15 years. That's a modest request, right?

[483] Best jeans evah!

Easy access...

: )

[477] Just ignore him...if enough people do that, it goes back on the bridge. Also, you can always derive some amusement from sad level of immaturity.

Go go O's!

Holy Shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After leading 10-1 after 6.5 innings, the O's score 5 in the 7th and 5 in the 8th, and now lead 11-10. William...WILLIAM! The Sox have blown a NINE RUN LEAD! Whats the word?????

@ 465

And then Hughes is unavailable tomorrow.

As I've said before, they could easily have rules on Hughes' usage. If Girardi is hamstrung by those, then it's pointless to bitch about his managing.

Furthermore, they still need guys outside of Hughes to be effective. The only way to make that happen is by pitching them.

He brought Hughes into a tie game. That's good enough for me.

[475] okay, but please don't call anybody here stupid. that's just mean. and very VERY wrong. pretty much everybody here (save a long-haired drummer in Atlanta!) are REALLY friggin' smart people. and we all LOVE the Yankees. i'm not even positive exactly who you're targeting, but out of the 3 people i'm pretty sure you're referring to - they're all quite intelligent. don't be rude.

[470] Bullets in the gun? Maybe.

[485] i'm pretty sure he had knee surgery. i think part of why it matters that joba started late and was a late bloomer since the poor thinng was a fatty growing up is he wasn't really groomed and given extra coaching and work and practice the way other studs were. so in some ways he is behind the curve.

MOSES!!!

Yanks Win!!!!

Go Oreos closer!!! is it Sherrill? go him!!! : )

Mariano saves the game and his manager…he should get credit for two saves.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. The offense in the 8th gets no credit.

Fire Girardi!

Hahahahahaha.

[485] NVM... Joba had knee surgery while at Nebraska...

[485] Stop putting Joba under the knife!! I think he did have tricep problems in college, which limited his workload and aided in his slipping past many teams.

5 in the 7th and 8th. Wow. Boston's bound to score a couple in the 9th. : /