Rain delayed the start of Friday night’s Yankees-Orioles schedule-filler by an hour and 27 minutes. Then during a pitching change with two outs in the seventh, the umpires called the tarp back out, leading to another hour-plus delay.
Things started off well for the Yankees during those first seven innings. Alex Rodriguez crushed a three-run homer into the second deck in left field in the first. Derek Jeter got his team-record 2,722nd hit, a single to right, leading off the third. His next time up he extended his new team record with another single to right, this one driving home Robinson Cano with a two-out run that pushed the Yankees’ lead to 4-1 after four.
Then the pitching fell apart. Andy Pettitte wasn’t sharp, needing 103 pitches to get through five innings. After giving up a second run with one out in the fifth, he loaded the bases, then made a great play on a chopper to the third base side for the second out. The ball tipped off Pettitte’s glove and headed toward the foul line, but Andy scrambled after it, picked it up with his bare hand and made a spinning, falling throw around the runner for the force at home. Unfortunately, Pettitte then hit Melvin Mora in the right elbow to force in the third Baltimore run.
Damaso Marte replaced Pettitte in the sixth and coughed up three more runs and the lead, plus a fourth which scored on a sac fly off Jonathan Albaladejo. In the seventh, Edwar Ramirez gave up three more, all with two outs, at which point the mid-game rain delay struck.
When the tarp came back off around 12:45 am, there were just a few hundred fans left. Ronan Tynan, out to sing “God Bless America” for 9/11, sang it to almost no one on 9/12. Down by six runs, Joe Girardi wisely put his bench in the game to protect his starters for the playoffs, leaving only Melky Cabrera, Brett Gardner, and DH Hideki Matsui in the lineup.
Jeter’s hit was a nice moment. The stadium was packed in anticipation of it, and he delivered, bringing about a huge ovation. His teammates came out of the dugout to congratulate him, and he tipped his helmet to the crowd and signaled to his family in their suite. Unfortunately, it was buried in a miserable morass of a rain-soaked 10-4 loss to a bad team. If nothing else, it worked well as a metaphor for all of the hype the hit was buried in. I’m genuinely pleased and impressed by Jeter’s accomplishment, but the Yankee hype machine nearly killed those emotions. The Yankees are an easy team to root for, but they can be a hard organization to like.
I stayed for the whole thing. Ronan Tynan coming out to sing to all 40 of us had me rolling.
Also, its time to give up on Edwar.
[1] I thought of you specifically tonight, when Edwar was working his craft. Also when Po took a couple of called third strikes.
[0] The Yankees are an easy team to root for, but they can be a hard organization to like.
Boy, ain't that the truth.
[2] When we realized Posada had two backwards Ks, we never had any doubt he'd get the third.
I have an interesting story about Jeter's tie breaking hit that I'll get into in detail tomorrow, but safe to say, humanity failed me yet again.
derek jeter. man, i love that guy. congrats, captain! : )
this might be a truly ridiculous thing to say, but i kinda hope Jeter is the last Captain we have. i mean, do we really need to have one? or another one?
[6} No more captains, here, here. Should not have had the last one. But maybe someone will come along with class, style, wit, and five tools who fits the uniform. After all, after the Yanks retire "2", the number "1", a classical number for captains, remains to be affixed to the wall of honor.
An honor to have watched his entire career up to this point. I could have done without the commercial with the boss, though.
(Blinking involuntarily and hysterically)
Yeah, umm... so last night, I had an argument with my roommate, who's shown a suspicious interest in baseball of late (though she likes individual players, she insists on rooting against the Yankees for purposes that bore me to tears) about Girardi's usage of Marte; she wondered why he would bother to use him at all if he was simply a left-handed specialist and I argued that Girardi was trying to see if Marte could be counted on to pitch beyond a specialist role, considering that he recently came off the DL and the team needs to slot their pitchers for the post-season. Then I realized that I was arguing for experimenting during a moment when the Yankees needed to shut down the opposing offense and give themselves a chance to win. Regardless of how much we lead the league, and to be honest we don't have that large a lead, what Girardi was doing, whether I speculated correctly or not was mostly nonsense to even the casual fan, and the results bore themselves out.
If Girardi was trying to see what level of effectiveness Marte could contribute, he should have had someone warming up to back him up from the get-go. The appearance was that he didn't even mind losing this game for whatever reason so as to see how effective an individual was in a certain situation. Either that or he got caught up in the chess-match nonsense from the previous series.
If I were a player, I'd be at least scratching my head and wondering about the strategy and the resulting unpreparedness to stop the loss of blood, but I'm almost certain someone can make some sense out of what happened last night if they really tried; maybe squint your eyes, click your heels together three times and wish on your lucky stars while holding a four-leaf clover and making a burnt sacrifice to Cult of Basebaal inside a transmutation circle. Anything's possible if you put your mind to it...
I thought the game should have been rained out. Since they decided to play it, and Jeter got his hit (as I have said, I think 3000 is at at least 3000 times more important), they should have done everything they could to win it because I think that is what Jeter is about. Inexplicably, Girardi seemed to manage on automatic pilot. He left Pettitte and Marte in too long, and then, after Marte failed, he used his worst relievers. I really don't understand what he brings to the managerial table, but the team is so talented, it probably doesn't matter.
btw, Gardner looks just awful at the plate, which is unfortunate because he adds a lot in the field, but not enough to justify much PT if he doesn't hit a little. Kevin Long should teach him to lose the uppercut swing.
[8] The thing is, Marte has been good since his return from the DL. It's not like Girardi put someone in who was struggling in the hopes of seeing some signs of life.
[9] I was almost surprised at how bad Gardner's swing looks. It seems worse to me, but maybe it's cause I'd gotten used to it then he got hurt so I'm unaccustomed again.
[10] True, but the situation didn't seem like one where you'd normally bring him in, and then to leave him in there like that was uncalled for. It seemed like he gambled and lost, and just punted the rest of the way. Perhaps because of the conditions, he just didn't want to risk his better pitchers and then fully committed to surrender when they lost the lead and failed to show life afterwards?
[9] Either he's still hurt or he's trying too hard to reach the short porch in right. This smacks of the conversation about Upton and whether he told the team he was ready when he wasn't or not; the difference being that Upton has been called out before for not hustling while Gardner's seemingly always running at a high RPM.
[7] 1 is retired for Billy Martin. The only single digits not retired by the Yankees is 2 & 6.
Question for the Banter, does anyone know home many hits Derek Jeter has, and where he stands on the Yankees all-time hit leader board? Seems like he's got a lot, and the sports media should pick up on it.
[9][10][11] I suspect Gardner is still hurt, or at least having difficulty re-adjusting to hitting after wearing a cast. And it wasn't like he was Ted Williams to start! Right now is basically second spring training for him. I suspect that he makes the PS roster anyway if only because of his speed (basically, he'll replace the 12th pitcher).
[8] and to be honest we don’t have that large a lead
You're a pessimist! 7 or 8 games up with 20 games left to play is a really, really big lead. Even the lead over LAA for best record is, historically, very secure at this point. Of course, nothing is impossible...
[9] I think 3000 is 0 times more important than passing Gehrig.
3000 has been attained by other players. Only 1 person can have the most hits as a Yankee. We'll see other players reach 3000. When might we see Jeter surpassed as the Yankee with the most hits? Maybe never?
How will Jeter's 3000th be any more significant than where he stands now? I don't think it will mean anything.
[9] I couldn't get that upset over bringing in the scrubs with a nine game lead. I just really don't like seeing Edwar pitch at all, butif we must use him, those are the type of games to use him.
[14] That's my feeling. We're going to see Jeter hit 3000. We're going to see A-Rod hit 3000. Maybe one day we'll see Cano hit it. We'll see several players from other teams get it. But in all liklihood, we'll only see the all time Yankee hit record broken once in our lifetimes.
I was at the game last night and the crowd was 100% into the record. With all due respect, no Yankee hype machine was needed. I almost get the feeling that those who don't value the record as much resent those who do, and feel the need to attribute the adulation to some artificial source.
As a lifelong Yankee fan, I find the organization to be very easy to root for because it values its legacy as much as I do. I am not ashamed of the Yankees pomp and circumstance and am glad the current custodians aren’t either.
[16] With all due respect, no Yankee hype machine was needed.
That's the point, no?
In 5, 10, 25, 60, 100 years no one is going to care if the Yanks won the game in which Jeter broke Lou's record. Now, did the Yanks win the Serious the year it happened?...............That's another story altogether. : )
[9] I actually think this record is 30x more important than 3,000 hits. 27 players already have 3,000 hits, but setting a team record (especially a storied franchise) with a number almost as substantial is more special. To me, and I think many Yankee fans, what makes this record so meaningful is having the opportunity to see just about every hit. When players accumulate 3,000 hits across 2 or 3 teams, the meaning is diluted to each franchise's fans. But, when a great player spends his whole career with one team and breaks a significant record, the poignancy becomes that much more refined.
Ignore [19] and see [14].
[17] Is it? My point was the coverage (which I don't think was over the top) reflected fan sentiment, not the other way around. The ovation given to Jeter was the longest I've ever experienced at YS, and I've been to many, many great moments.
[16] there's definitely a backlash against the "hype." As I've said here in recent days I find the negativity about the coverage more unappealing than the coverage itself, which to me at it's worst was merely repetitious. Ignoring, or downplaying Jeter's accomplishment because you were turned off by the excitement doesn't make a bit of sense to me.
You, and those who were at the game attended a very special moment in the team's history. Wish I'd been there myself.
[21] Yes. The point is that the fans are smart enough and enthused enough to appreciate the moment. We don't need endless graphics and retrospectives and commentary by announcers and swelling music and so forth (the "hype machine"). In fact, I think all of the hype (to use the convenient phrase) distracted from the moment. It neither enhanced it nor reflected it.
Take your comment about the long ovation Jeter received. I didn't know that happened because the YES broadcast didn't stand back and allow us to appreciate that moment. Instead, we had a jumble of camera views and Michal Kay ramblings.
For great moments such these, less is definitely more.
[22] That there has been a backlash against the "hype" suggests that the hype has been, well, over-hyped. Perhaps had the coverage retreated a bit to the background, people would not have begun to backlash against it and (wrongly) against the achievement itself.
[23] I’ve watched all the games…when did these endless graphics take place? As I mentioned in a previous thread, the Tampa broadcast had more coverage than YES on the night Jeter broke the record.
Besides, I don't get why endless graphics and retrospectives are inappropriate? It seems to me that until Jeter broke the record, ongoing coverage was not only reasonable, but required. I guess you argue that YES could have had more variety, but the context wasn’t changing with each AB. The fact that it took a little longer than maybe expected doesn’t mean the buildup was redundant or a distraction.
I am not insisting that others change their opinions of the record, but I just don’t get the need to thumb one’s nose down on the accomplishment by implying it wasn’t worthy of extensive coverage, and saying the attention amounted to hype does just that.
Finally, as soon as it was archived, I watched the hit on MLB.com and thought YES captured the moment well. The mics have muted sound all year, so that was lost a bit, but the shots of the guys congratulating Jeter were great. I am not sure what else they could have done.
[24] My view is the backlash is really against those who appreciate the record, and calling the attention hype is a way to demean it.
[25] I'm not thumbing my nose at any accomplishment, and I think that it is a great feat. That does not mean that it needed to be front and central at every moment of the last few games. You seem to assume that because I found the coverage over the top that I am not impressed by the achievement.
I am not sure what else they could have done.
They could have shut the fuck up. If you didn't find Kay's (for example) endless chattering about the milestone annoying, then we are just different creatures.
The fact that it took a little longer than maybe expected doesn’t mean the buildup was redundant or a distraction.
Again, this seems to point to a fundamental difference in perspective. I find about 80% of most sports broadcasts to be redundant and distracting to start with. When milestones are approached, that percentage invariably increases.
So anyway, a group of three or four morons showed up in the bottom of the third (in a game delayed by 90 minutes no less) and as Jeter was up, stopped dead in front of us in my row and stood there because they couldn't read their fucking tickets that said they were in a completely different section. And then they refused to fucking move no matter now many people in our area started screaming at them. I was tall enough to see everything, but my sister and another little girl behind us certainly weren't. They missed the entire thing. And then when these idiots finally started moving to their own section, they actually got offended when I told them to go fuck themselves.
I hate people
[26] Well, I think you're wrong---and least with respect to me.
For the record, after Kay made the intial call, YES broadcasters didn't say a word for 88 seconds. If that doesn't qualify as letting the moment breath, I don't know what does. Also, Kay noted the 2 1/2 minute standing ovation.
Many here (not many places elses) have complained about the hype, but I still don't know to what they were referring. I guess I just don't see how "hype" could be used to describe a moment that so many people cared so much about.
i think it was a lot of hype for a person who has deserved it. if someone hits 70 or 73 home runs in a season, the hype is much more, not just from the organization but from the national media. meanwhile, jeter has consistently been great. with his kind of consistency, there aren't all that many moments that can be so hyped. i think that the point at which he eclipses the yankee hit record, passing one of the legends of the game, is one of those moments. why shouldn't the fans be excited for him? why shouldn't the yankees promote it? i'm really baffled by the negativity.
[27] See [30] Kay did shut the f$%^ up. If the things you are complaining about actually happened, I'd still probably disagree, but I don't see any evidence of what you are suggesting.
Also, if you believe sports coverage is redundant (and it often is), then I don't get the point of taking YES to task for doing what you say it (and all networks) always does.
Here is how dictionary.com defines hype:
- exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
- an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
- a swindle, deception, or trick.
Using the word hype to describe the coverage of this moment necessarily implies that one does not think the event warrants the attention. In my opinion, this record was a great accomplishment that wasn't exaggerated, questionable or deceptive.
What I've found interesting is that the backlash only seems to exist on the blogs, which were created in part as an alternative to the mainstream media. I can't say that all the blogs have downplayed the Jeter thing, only the ones I check out regularly. On the night Jeter tied Gehrig, recaps here and River Ave. focused more on the writer's distaste for the "hype" than the accomplishment itself. NoMaas I think ignored Jeter in lieu of a Posada photoshop treatment. Though I should note today NoMaas has a nice tribute to Jeter. The LoHud coverage was excellent as always, but I don't count Pete's blog as a blog.
Anyway, this week I've found the mainstream coverage of Jeter's feat much more to my liking than my favorite Yankee blogs. I think this is the first time I've felt somewhat let down by the blogs as a whole.
and to add to that, i think that the negativity starts with non yankee fans who righteously resent the fact that the yankees value their own accomplishments separately than mlb accomplishments, and then it flows to yankee fans who feel like they have to be enlightened or neutral in some way. and i think that this has centered on jeter for the last 10 or so years. and it's like we are supposed to feel bad about loving him because he really isn't as good as he seems. maybe it's that he has a bigger following because he's good looking, maybe it's that his defense isn't great, maybe it's that he isn't a power hitter, maybe it's that he isn't the best hitter ever. and yet he's been one of the absolute best players for 14 years. i don't care why other people like him, and i don't resent him for it. i like him because he's been so incredibly great for so long. he deserves a week or 2 of hype.
[34] The only, and I repeat ONLY, negativity I have heard has stemmed from blogs and my foolish decision to tune in Mike Francessa for a few minutes. In each instance, I firmly believe the negativity is a knee jerk, cliched desire to be a contrarian. We've seen that quite a bit with the Yankees this season, so it probably shouldn't come as a surprise.
So guys.... If Michael Young was about to break the Texas hits record, and the Texas station replicated the amount/volumn of the YES coverage, you would have been just fine with it? Would have had no negative comments?
[37] i wouldn't be watching it. and i wouldn't care. but there is a difference between the yankees and the rangers.
[37] Pudge has the Texas hit record with only 1, 738. If you think that compares to passing Lou Gehrig at 2,721, I don't know what to say.
Having said that, if the Rangers fans and players felt so strongly about it, I would have absolutely no problem with how the event was covered. Because of the factors I mentioned, I doubt either of the two will deem it as important.
[37] We'll find out next year. : ) Ivan Rodriguez 1738. Michael Young 1656. (according to the number BR has right now.
If the Yankees win the World Series this year the ol' "Hype Machine" will be on hyperdrive. I think there will be no complaints then b/c, well, everyone is on board with that.
[39] I am in agreement with you on this one.
Atta boy, AJ. He doesn't like Molina now. I said it last night and I'll say it again. I seriously dislike Brian Roberts. shit.
[32] Well, he didn't shut the fuck up (relatively speaking) for the rest of the game, which is the bigger point, no? What people are objecting to was the nearly nonstop discussion of the record for several days, accompanied by various graphics, repeated clips, repeated anecdotes, etc.
This didn't bother you. It sort of bothered me--though I tried simply to tune it out as I try to tune out most of the gibberish that is spewed on sports broadcasts.
[34] ...which were created in part as an alternative to the mainstream media.
If the mainstream coverage was adequate on this subject (as you suggest), then haven't the blogs also done their job (posing as an alternative) job by focusing on other aspects or story lines?
WOW. What a catch!
[43] He is a broadcaster, so shutting up for the rest of the game would kind of be asking a lot. I've watched every YES broadcast and didn't notice the nontstop discussion that you suggest. If you have a game and a period of time you can refer me to, I'd like to see what you objected to.
I'd love to crush AJ for his pathetic performance, but for the past two games Girardi has managed as if he doesn't really care anymore, so it's hard to expect that the players will.
William, think about it this way. You were extremely bothered earlier this year about the media attention on the supposed shortcomings of NYS. You repeatedly (as I recall) complained about story after story on the subject, while less focus was paid to other story lines.
Yet obviously many people felt strongly about what they perceived as shortcomings with the new stadium. There did seems to be a "real" story there on some level. Yet surely you would agree that the non-stop discussion of the controversies were tiresome, and you must be able to imagine that even those who shared sympathies with the critics might have become at some point desensitized or even turned off by the droning coverage?
This is a rather parallel case, I think.
From my own person perspective--I was riveted to the first couple of ABs, but tried to block out most of everything else. I just didn't need to see Jeter standing next to Tino in Seattle in 1995 any more times.
[46] You know what I mean. Obviously he need not have been literally silent for nine innings--as welcome as that would have been--but at the same time there might have been other things to talk about. And with a TV broadcast, there is often a good deal of room for a lot less talk. Just ask Vin Scully (or better, listen to him call a game on TV).
[45] That kid's having a good day at the ballpark.
[48] I wasn't botherd by the amount of attention. I was bothered by the inaccuracy of it. That's why I can accept (but disagree with) the criticism from those who think the record isn't significant, but think it rings from hollow otherwise.
Does AJ even care anymore?
[46] Correct me if I'm wrong, but did not YES run some sort of Jeter graphic or clip at every half inning of the game (like him completing the "luckiest man" line from Gehrig's speech)? That alone was a bit much for me. I mean, really, I'm watching the damn game on a Yankees channel, I know after an inning or two what we're all waiting for. This strikes me as hype.
[53] I watched about 6 innings of the game and didn't notice one every half inning...only before innings when he would bat and after he broke the record. I think this event was significant, so I wouldn't be bothered if they did lead in every half inning. Hype is artificial...nothing about this event was fake, so the coverage would have to be over the top for me to consider it hype.
[44] yeah, one could see it that way. I just haven't found any compelling coverage or insights about Jeter on the blogs, and to me, it's been pretty much the only story worth discussing. I'd be much more interested in reading what my favorite Yankee bloggers think about the feat than what they think of the coverage. This was a big week for Jeter and the Yankees, and I think the blogs for whatever reason booted the ball. That won't stop me from coming back, or admiring and respecting the bloggers, mind you.
[43] Are you crazy?!? Michael Kay saying something repetatively?!? I don't believe it!
Well.... the good folks are Fox (who have NO televised game on at 1PM) won't let me watch the game on EI, so I just checked the score.
What the Fuck!
2 hits for us? Are we mailing it in?
AJ giving up 6 runs in the 2nd?!?
Let's hope he's not preacticing for the PS.
Oh, God.
Wtf with Burnett?
W--T--F???
[23] Agree, mp, wholeheartedly.
The best thing YES could have done was to have mentioned the figure without hype, without videos, etc., and when Derek actually did it, stfu and just the moment speak for itself.
Just stfu, show the onfield celebration and above all, just listen to the fans erupt.
unfortunately, it's not just AJ. Have any of our starters been sharp lately (I haven't noticed because DEREK JETER has blocked out everything from the pitchers to THE SUN this week - just kidding)?
Just a soggy patch for the rotation. They'll be crisp come October I predict.
stating the obvious: burnett better show the fuck up for the playoffs
just got in and turned on the game, 6-1 in the 5th?!??
[61] Incredible, isn't it?
If Girardi was not going to manage to win this game, the Yankees should send out a press release so people can choose not to waste their time attending the game.
[61] Dang, you beat me to the game starting time last night, and now you just beat me here too.
WTF is going on with the team since Derek broke the record?
[63] at least he shouldn't have told the players not to score runs. what a dick! i really wanted them to win 111 games this year!!
Why is our "ace" (or second ace, or whatever) looking at 11-9 with an ERA nearly four and a half?
Why does every starting pitcher we've signed over the last decade proceed to suck?
(Exceptions being three potential HOFers, of course, plus Sabathia.) It's like everyone who shows promise comes over and just wilts. I mean, I get that this sometimes happens, but with us, it *always* happens.
Wtf?
[61] more obvious, but less acknowledged: good Andy, and good CC best show the fuck up as well. The poorer models of each have been seen in October.
I'm not worried about any of the big 3 at this point, but I don't buy the popular notion that the whole season comes down to good AJ showing up.
Before worrying about what pitchers show up in the post season, I'd like to lock up home field first. If Girardi keeps unloading the bench, that wont happen.
wow, a 3rd hit! and we have a walk. and one measly run.
jeter's record? girardi's incompetance? aj's suckitude?
can we please go back to just blaming a-rod?! ; )
i want the Score Truck!!!
[66] Moose didn't suck. i miss him...
[66] To whom are you referring?
wow, he got Roberts out! : o
that 2nd inning really killed him (and us).
[63] Yeah.... why rest our C and older players when we only have a 99,9% chance of making the PS and only a 5.5 game lead for HF advantage?
[67] totally agree.
i personally feel fairly confident that we will get the decent versions of both cc and andy - but that is not based on much beyond their recent stretch and just kind of gut feeling.
[64] i understand a bit of a letdown maybe, but i hope they don't fall into shitty baseball going into the playoffs.
[74] Right...make sense to rest them all in the same game and use Duncan as the DH. Who cares if game 7 of the ALCS is at Yankee Stadium. It's not like the Yankees have trouble playing in Anaheim.
[66] I was including Moose, for sure, in the Big Three (along with Johnson (who played below his level but was still good) and Clemens).
Throw Duque in there, too. He worked out nicely.
i'd love a 3-run job here from Po!
fuck. least it wasn't a double play... : /
humph...we got nothing going on
crap. with the O's still had Rhodes & Benitez in the pen. we'd win with veritable ease!
i just listened to a song called:
"I'm A Schizo (And So Am I)"
hilarious!!!
If the Yankees weren't going to actually field a full team this weekend, they should have pushed one of the starters back to face Anaheim. The Yankees still have 4 games left with the Angels and giving away games is the best way to ensure you cough up the home field.
okay kid, please don't hit anyone in the face. (except, maybe AJ)
has anyone devloped a stat that might loosely be describe as the antithesis as the quality start - maybe something like the pftou (pitcher fucked this one up) where basically the pitcher put you in a fairly big whole (maybe 6 runs, maybe more - i pick six becuase it is twice what a quailty start is and good offenses average just under 6 runs a game) early in the game (again going off a quality start maybe in 3 innings becuase it is half a quality start).
wang obviously would have a lot of these - if i have the impetus to do so at some point, i would bet aj has his share of these.
i guess part of what makes me a bit more confident with cc and even andy is they don't seem to throw that many of these total stink bombs that put the offense in a major whole.
[66] you're referring to the Jaret Wright, Kevin Brown types, right?
I think AJ's going to prove himself a cut above those guys. Just a feeling, but for some reason I have faith he'll come through.
yes has some of the most depressing commercials
[86] CC and Andy definitely seem more poised and focused than AJ, which makes them seem better suited to "gut out" (sorry for the cliche) a game.
I suspect you are correct that AJ has thrown more "pftous" (excellent stat) than the other guys.
[87] Jarett Wright, Kevin Brown, that guy from Detroit who lost to Florida in extras--Weaver--, Jose Contreras, what's-his-face from Montreal, what's-his-face from Colorado, the lefty...
Each and every one of them was supposed to be at least good. Am I forgetting anyone?
[90] Expecting those guys to be good was probably the problem. The Yankees have hit on Key, Cone, El Duque, Mussina, Wells, Sabathia, Clemens, etc.
[84] Monday's a big game for Joba, and for me as well. It'll be my 3rd Joba game at the stadium this year. My dad and I got our first look around the stadium the day that Angels game got rained out. May 3rd seems like a year ago.
Anyway, about Joba. I saw in the paper today that Girardi plans to lengthen the Joba leash on Monday. I wouldn't be surprised if he's pitching for his spot in the October rotation. Put it this way, if Joba doesn't have a quality start (albeit limited) I will not be surprised, or disappointed if he's moved to the pen the next day. Of course I'd rather see him make a convincing case for an October start at some point.
[90] Also, what do most of those guys have in common? They came from the NL.
It really bugs me that they've been fielding these "last day of the season" lineups. Just not a big fan of taking our foot off of the gas yet.
From Pete Abe ...
Burnett has a 6.14 ERA in his last nine starts. He has put 85 runners on base in 55.2 innings and allowed nine homers.
------------------
that's positively Ponsonian ...
[90] god damn kenny rogers (guy from detriot); home run javy (from montreal - who i actually liked); denny neagle (colorado)
maybe pavano should go on the list
[93] Very good point.
[94] Hopefully Mike Sciosa is as indifferent toward winning any more games as Girardi seems to be.
[96] Oh, actually, I was referring to Weaver from Detroit. And as to that last guy, I'd probably put him on the list if he ever existed.
that was a tough catch - good one jh jr
[96] pavano should go to hell! ; )
i liked Javy too. still do. he had a great first half for us. the league prolly caught up to him after that. he's pitching very very well for the Bravos this season. they might unload him for a good bounty. his career K/BB is pretty awesome.
neagle. he "blew" away his life. literally! ; )
[99] sorry weeping. for some reason i always blank on weaver coming from detroit. i think weaver and rogers are my two least favorite from that list.
[101] Didn't he have shoulder problems during the second half?
on the one hand, this is the best Yankee team in a while, and it's been an absolutely amazing second half; on the other hand, we have all of three pitchers who I have ANY confidence in against Boston or the Angels (CC, Mo, Hughes)--ask yourself, would you be surprised if any of our other guys got hit hard?
the offense is gonna have to show up big time.....
[96] oh, those names read like a Mount Rushmore of Futility.
The Yankees would never do it, but I wouldn't mind if they had something like an Anti-Monument Park in the bowels of the stadium, to remember guys like that.
[103] quite possible, i doesn't remember...
[103] yeah i think it came out after his poor second half that season
well one job mk will never have his meterologist
All Yankee pitchers since 1996, sorted by games started:
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/gjqYa
[14] How will Jeter’s 3000th be any more significant than where he stands now? I don’t think it will mean anything.
Because he will be the first Yankee to reach 3000 hits (Cano will be the second). That is important because 3000 hits have become the gold standard for hits (similar to 500 HRs for HRs).
LOOK! A RUN!
atta boy, Melk...
[109] Yeah, 3000 is a nice pretty round number, and it's a legit milestone, but not as significant to me as the franchise hit record. Put it this way, Jeter's probably a first ballot Hall Of Famer even if he doesn't get another hit from this day forward. It's all gravy after Gehrig, 3000 or not in my opinion.
ah well - at least a little life at the end - i think that means according to paul o'neill's theory the offense will be on tomorrow
[110] TWO, even! : o
we best salvage a game tomorrow. i'm glad CC is going...
[108] Diane can you sort that by FIP? (I realize you can''t ;) ). Nice work though.
[111] i REALLY want 3,500+
[105] I wouldn’t mind if they had something like an Anti-Monument Park in the bowels of the stadium, to remember guys like that.
Yeah, they could bury it out of sight, like maybe underneath a restaurant or something...
[109] Because he will be the first Yankee to reach 3000 hits (Cano will be the second)
I've heard this a good bit in recent days. I think it is *highly* unlikely that Cano reaches 3000 hits. He's 26 y.o., has 850 hits, and has never had more than 189 in a season (though he might top that this year). If he averages 200 hits for the next ten years, he will still be short of 3000.
[111] I'm not saying that passing Gehrig has 0 importance, only that it has less importance to me because I had no idea who held the Yankee career hit record. So if I didn't care enough to know before, I don't know why I should be knocked over now. I have always focused on Jeter reaching 3000.
He would be a HoFer. Similarly, he doesn't have to win anymore rings, but I'm sure that he won't view the next few he wins as gravy.
Beyond all of that, I'm looking at whether or not he can reach 4000 hits and maybe pass Rose. If he does that, it will be better than anything he has done to date except contribute to the rings.
[117] I think I was the first to say it. ;)
But since Joel Sherman is reading my posts, I'll quote his tweet:
[118] yeah, rings ain't gravy, you got that right! but Jeter probably views any other individual achievement as such. The Gehrig record, whether you were aware of it or not stood for 72 years, and may never be broken again. Sorry, 3000 isn't bigger than that to me. 4000, now we're talkin, but that's a loooong way away.
There is NO way Jeter gets 4,300 hits ... because Rose got nearly a quarter of his hits playing a position at the bottom of the defensive spectrum, and Teixeira will be entrenched at 1B for the next 7 years:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=rosepe01&year=Career&t=b#defp
Now, if the Yanks stuck Jeter at DH after his SS days are over .... MAYBE he gets there, but the roster would have to be reconfigured by then to rid it of the Matsui types, and Derek would have to agree to it.
[120]
yeah, rings ain’t gravy, you got that right!
================
But cranberry sauce has rings, so by Thanksgiving association .... ;-)
[119] The main difference, though, is that by 26 Jeter had three 200-hit seasons. Jeter's career 162 game average is 208 hits, Cano's is 193. Jeter's career BA is .317, Cano's is .305. So, he has fewer hits at age 26, does not average as many per season, hits for a lower average, and has yet to have a few "big hit" (200+ hits) seasons to pad the total.
In other words, it is likely that Cano will only fall farther behind Jeter's pace, not catch up.
[121] But Diane, Rose did not have the option of being played (playing himself?) at DH.
[124]
The point I was trying to make was that Derek needs to have a position to play 5 years from now ...
[125] Yes, he does. But if he can still hit and if he's getting close, I am sure if five years they'll find a position him between 1B, 3B, 2B, DH, and maybe corner OF. That's a long way down the road to worry about who's got what position locked up.
I still think Jeter would have been a stellar CFer, but that ship has sailed.
[123] I think that the arc of Cano's career is still ascending.
[128] Maybe, but again, he would have to average 200 hits for eleven years, without injury, to reach 3000 at this point. I just don't see a .305 BA, free swinger guy improving that much and staying effective that long.
[129] But he can play 14 more years. I'm not saying he will, but he could. He could also just lose focus.
Hat tip to RAB:
Kennedy activated in Tampa
http://community.thetimes-tribune.com/blogs/yankees/archive/2009/09/12/kennedy-activated-in-tampa.aspx
Waking up to 1: sucky-AJ 2: more back&forth posts about the (de)merits of YES' Jeter coverage...Oh Lord, is Sunday really thy holy day for worship and contemplation? My spirit is sapped, body weak..the fruit of thou Guinness nectar tree flows through my system from last evening, and I cannot now accept a loss to the O's alongside my heavy head..
..but just to be provocative, is there anything the Yankees or YES could do that Williamnyy23 would not support? :)
[132] I'll take my turn at provocative, returning a discussion from before [130]: I predict that Cano will have a fine career but not reach 2000 hits before he retires.
[133] I'm not sure how a player can have almost 900 hits by his age 26 season yet end up with < 2000, and still have a fine career. I think that would be a major disappointment.
[134] If he averages 170 hits for the next seven years, he will have almost exactly 2000 hits (a little more, actually). I think that he will have at best a couple of seasons at 200 hits, during his peak window from 27 through 29, then go into decline. His free-swinging approach will catch up to him as his bat speed erodes even slightly. He will be done by age 34, after a fine career with several excellent seasons.
Maybe 2000 is an exaggeration. Let's say 2200. I'm just trying to get some discussion going.
[135] Cano's Similar Batters through 25:
Joe Mauer (950)
Carlos Baerga (938)
Yogi Berra (933) *
Two out of three (to quote Meatloaf) ain't bad.
More than one Yankee has said he's the most talented hitter on the team. It's all about keeping his head straight.
[136] But despite the accolades, he has not *really* started to pile up hits and he's already in his age 26 season. He *might* put it all together, improve over the next few years and---avoiding injury---play a long time and accumulate high counting totals. Or, he can follow a more "normal" career arc and see his career end in his early or mid 30s. I suspect the latter.
Baerga is a very interesting comp: 971 hits by age 26 (including a partial season lost to the strike), of which two were 200-the seasons. He finished with about 1600 hits.
Tony Lazzeri is also one of the Similar Batters--not bad, as you say--837 hits by age 26, finished with 1800+ hits. Fine career, made it to the HOF, no real disappointment, didn't make it to 2000.
But despite the accolades, he has not *really* started to pile up hits and he’s already in his age 26 season.
He's like 50 behind Jeter at the same age. That's pretty close to piling.
[138] By the end of his age 26 season, Jeter had 1009 hits (if I added correctly), Cano will have about 870 or 880 hit by the end of the season, around 130 hits behind Jeter. Plus, as I pointed out above, Jeter had completed three 200-hit seasons by this point; Cano has not reached those kinds of numbers yet (though he'll probably get to 200 this season). Jeter was well ahead of Cano's pace, and had a better track-record for piling up hits. The two are really not that close, at least at the same point in their careers.
[138] Another thing to consider is plate appearances. Jeter has averaged about 100 more PAs per season than Cano (about 690 to 590), largely because Jeter has batted primarily in the top three spots in the lineup, while Cano has spent almost all his career at 6-7-8. That's not going to change much in the near future: Jeter, Teix and A-Rod will occupy the higher spots in the line-up, and it is not likely that Cano will bat much above fifth. His lower lineup position will deprive him of hits.
Looking historically, no player has ever reached 3000 hits without getting at least 10000 PAs for his career (the 27 3000-hit guys had between 10200 and 15800 PAs).
Cano has fewer than 3000 PAs so far, but he'll finish the season with a little more than 3000. At this pace, he will need to play another 10 or (more likely) 11 seasons (until he is 36 or ) just to have an outside shot at 3000 hits, and that again assumes that he continues to play at a high level. In fact, an even higher level, since his hit pace will have to improve.
So to review again, at the end of their respective age 26 seasons, Jeter will have had a higher batting average, had more plate appearances, had 100+ more hits, and occupied a higher position in the batting order entering his peak seasons. Jeter is way ahead of Cano at the same point in their careers, if we are looking solely at the accumulation of career hits (qctul and potential).
monkeypants (what's that name about, btw)
200 hit seasons mean nothing in and of themselves. Hank Aaron never hit more than 44 HRs in a season, yet he held the HR record until Bonds did enough 'roids to become the Michelin Man of baseball.
Cano will be moved up in the order, probably by next year.
His numbers are right there, not for 3500, like Jeter, but to have a shot at 3000. It's all about health, both mental and physical.
[141] No real story behind the name--just an inside joke.
You're right that 200-hit seasons are meaningless in and of themselves. I point out 200-hit seasons only as a quick way to underscore that Vano has not, to this point, accumulate big hit seasons commensurate with his batting skill. Yes, health and longevity are the biggest facts in having high career counting stat totals, but it helps significantly if players get off to "quick starts" to their career so they are "ahead of the pace" when late career decline sets. Moreover, the players who play the longest tend to be those who have great success early. Rarely do late starters end up high on career counting stat lists.
There have been 27 3000-hit guys in the history of the game. Cano is not even in the top-100 for hits by age 26...he is well behind the pace for 3000 hits; he's not "right up there." Yes, he could get to 3000, but that would probably require that he play until he's 40 y.o., because the start to his carer has been relatively slow (by 3000-hit standards) .
Jeter may end up with 3500 hits, but again, only if he plays until he's about 40 y.o. He might, however, go into q rapid decline and be out of the league in a few years. Even so, he stands a great chance to reach 3000 hits because he built up such massive totals earlier in his career. Cano does not have that luxury.
We love Cano. We love his sweet swing and the way line drives jump off his bat. We like watching him collect hits. He has a had a great start and will probably have an excellent career. But at the same time, we should not exaggerate what he has accomplished so far, and we should not forget that he will be 27 y.o. next season. Unless he dramatically increases his hits totals per year (like suddenly averaging 200 hits per season for a decade), something for which there is little evidence, or unless he plays until he's 40 or 42 (something which cannot really be predicted), he will never reach 3000 hits, and will probably never really come that close. We cannot say with even reasonable certainty or expectation that he will be the next Yankee we see get to 3000 hits.
There is no shame or disappointment in that.