It's pretty obvious to me that, now, Sergio Mitre is...the most interesting man in the world.

[1] well anyone described as a bon-bon has to be interesting

[1] There are worse guys to have around as the potential 7th/8th starter. Kei Igawa, for instance. Sidney Ponson. Jaret Wright. Mitre will cost what, a million bucks and a bit more, plus the 40-man roster spot? In December, no big deal.

[3] Whistle that tune if you want, but Mitre was arguably the worst starter in MLB (or rather, the Unluckiest™) last year to get as many starts as he did. He IS Kei Igawa, and he is a whisker away from wasting a couple dozen more starts next year.

[3][4] yes, the no big deal notion is all well and good until we actually have to see the unlucky bon-bon next year :}
with all of the other pitching depth traded (which was described well by lohud) as mp pointed out on another thread the unlucky one is inching closer to being used territory

FWIW

Name, ERA with Yankees, career ERA+

Wright 2005, 6.98, 90
Wright 2006, 4.49, 90
Ponson, 2006, 10.47, 89
Ponson, 2008, 5.85, 89
Igawa, 2007, 6.25, 68
Mitre, 2009, 6.79, 78

===

Wow, to argue that Mitre is *better* than the rest of that crew is to make a distinction without a difference. What a mess.

[6] I was going to launch into an impassioned defense of my position, and then I decided, I really don't give a damn about Sergio Mitre. And if you think my argument is a distinction without a difference, ok, I could see that, though I see it differently.

[5] And I don't care if he pitches for the Yanks next year or not. If he does and he's good, then no worries. If he does and he sucks, he'll get a shot, probably 50 innings again, and then someone else will be tried. 50 IP of Sergio Mitre won't sink the 2010 Yanks, no matter how much we might worry during the season. If he doesn't pitch at all, hooray, it means they got a better alternative or the 5 starters made almost all their starts.

In any case, boy oh boy is it SLOW in the baseball world when we are bantering about the relative merits of Sergio Mitre vis a vis Wright, Ponson, etc. Surely we can find something else to discuss.

[4] To paraphrase Sparky Anderson, "Don't embarrass anyone by comparing them to Kei Igawa". This would be a case where your statistics are indeed "damn lies". To wit, the "career ERA+" of Wright and Ponson are irrelevant to this discussion. Are you seriously saying that if you needed a spot starter you would just as soon throw Igawa as Mitre? Wow. Don't put that on your resume if you're applying for a managers job.

Look, every team needs "worst-case scenario" options if one or two starters go down. They're not going to be prime talent. What, you want Roy Halliday or Lackey "just in case"?

In 1972, I saw YES at Gaelic Park. They were pretty unknown then. They opened for the 2nd act of HUMBLE PIE, and the headline band was MOUNTAIN. It did cost me $6... but I thought... what the fuck. It's only money.

[6] You got FIP numbers for those guys?

Bill James projects Mitre at about 5 ERA next year. So I guess he thinks last year was an outlier. If James is right, then even for relief work that would be worth $1M and a roster spot.

[9] FIP for Mitre last year was 5.3.

[9] Gaelic Park!! That place holds a special place in this Jasper's heart

[7] shaun this is the banter - every year we have to find someone we have to spend an inordinate amount of time discussing :}

oyf we need one of your old polls - where does bay end up and who do you want playing lf for the yanks next year?

[1] "I don't usually finish them off, but when I pitch... I get Dos Equis!" >;)

[13] This year we should take a vacation! Our boys did win the Serious after all. =)

Or we could discuss something else to no end; best holiday drink recipe, or what Serious swag we each want for the holidays.

[9] Mountain! Or we could discuss 70's metal/prog rock bands. Where's thelarmis, or is it too early?

[15] I think it's a rule that musicians don't officially wake up before 4pm... but oh wait! He's a drummer >;) (loveyathel!)

[7] In any case, boy oh boy is it SLOW in the baseball world when we are bantering about the relative merits of Sergio Mitre vis a vis Wright, Ponson, etc.

True, because we never had opportunity or cause to debate this during the regular season last year.

[8] What, you want Roy Halliday or Lackey “just in case”?

That's an absurd distortion of what I said, and you know it.

As to your basic question, just look at the stats. There is pretty much no difference between Mitre and Igawa, other than bad luck or something. Would I pick Igawa over Mitre for a spot star? Probably not. Would I waste a million dollars or a roster spot on Mitre? No way. Was Mitre arguably the worst starter in the league last year? Yes.

Is Mitre really the worst case scenario? He is right now probably #7 or #8, depending one whether the team will use Aceves as a full-time reliever. Mitre got 9 starts last year and he is now CLOSER to a spot in the rotation. He's basically an injury and a panic move-a-young-start-to-the-BP away from starting, again.

Are some of us trying to argue that an equally "qualified" starter can't be had, as a "last case scenario" during the season? And should we be signing players just because they are (arguably) better than Igawa? i don't even need to answer those questions.

[10][11] Very Unlucky™ indeed.

[14] Excellent!

==

I have no problem with the Yankees parting ways with Wang to save 4 million dollars (or, rather, some fraction of 4 million). If those savings are then flipped into securing the services of a known failure like Sergio Mitre, fuck it, I'd rather they take a flyer on Wang-in-arbitration.

==

OK, I gotta get some work done today.

[17] Something tells me that they already counted Mitre's money as spent, and the savings on Wang were another, separate matter. They have been a bit sour on Wang for a while - remember how surprised we all were when Cano was signed to a contract that bought out his arb years, but Wang wasn't?

Just a guess - but I think the Yanks are almost betting on Wang pitching very little in the majors in 2010, and perhaps beyond. Otherwise, why not have him as an insurance policy, even for an inflated price? Free agent pitching costs a lot more, as they know.

Whether Mitre is really as bad as many think (I think he is worse) or a harmless insurance policy, he does come with a cost. If the Yankees really are adhering to a budget, then tendering him a contract isn't insignificant. I can think of more than a few ways to use that million than to keep around a bad (or unlucky) starting pitcher that you really hope you never have to use. Of course, if the Yankees really don’t have a budget, then who really cares. Instead of fretting about Mitre, I’d be more concerned about the lack of starting depth that actually makes his pitching 50 unlucky innings an uncomfortably realistic possibility.

[15] Best holiday drink recipe:

Pumpkin Colada:

-Take leftover pumpkin pie batter (you know, the stuff left over after you fill two pie crusts), combine with Haagen Dazs Vanilla ice cream, ice, and rum in a blender.

-Blend

-Drink

You're welcome

Lackey taking a physical for BoSox .... unconfirmed
http://twitter.com/ed_price

If Wang slips away, he better be awful from here on out. I mean I'd think there is a compelling if not iron-clad case the Yankees could make for letting him go completely like that.

[13] I don't believe the Sox really want Bay, unless he gave them a Hometown discount.... like 4/$60m. And he didn't. Theo has always been concerned about defense, so Holliday is their preferred choice.

Can the Angels afford Bay? The need a big bat or 2.
As someone here pointed out, The M's are close to competing in a weak AL West. Would they splurge for Bay?
The Giants? Bay by rhe Bay? Or does SF only give big contracts to shitty players?

I can't believe JD will be a Yankee. As nutty as Boris's initial demands always are, to say to US that the bidding starts at 3/$39, is the same as saying goodbye. I guess the big 3 OFers are Holliday, Bay and JD. When one finally signs, the other 2 become more valuable. I believe they will all sign late, as I don't think any team will start with an 'awesome' offer.

I say Cashman should offer Holliday 5/$77.5m and give him 24 hours to decide. Talk up our history, the makeup of our team, and of course, all the rings he will collect in 5 years. If winning and being a Yankee are not that important to him... so be it.

If Hollidays signs, trade Melky (save $3m) and forget about a DH until the ASB, and then re-assess. Even without a full time DH, Holliday gives us a sick lineup, solid defense and lots of flexibility.

In this economy, there will be many decent deals mid season.

Lastly, it is time to commit to Phil and Joba and give these guys a full year in the rotation (Phil is good for 160-170 IP, Joba 180-190). We MUST see what they can give us. Our future NEEDS these 2 cost controlled, above average SPs. Remember when we talked about them both being Aces? There in no reason why they can't be the BEST #3 / #4 tandem in baseball... but we must stop fucking around with them.

Tabata, IPK and AJax are gone. You can buy a few WS's, but a dynasty MUST have above average players developed from within. It's time to stop jerking Phil and Joba around. And for my rectum's sake, stop talking about trading Montero.

[23] My impression was that the consensus was Bay is a better defender than Holliday

[24] Quite the opposite. Bay is universally thought to be a very bad outfielder (by both stats and scouts), while Holliday's rep ranges from a tick below average to considerably above.

[23] Dynasties need great players...it doesn't matter whether they are homegrown or not.

[25] Huh, that makes me think I'm actually confusing Francesa's opinion with consensus, god help me.

[27] you mean you don't think the Mets have to "make this The Halladay Season"?

[28] LOL, actually that would be great if they did! Get him out of the AL.

[28]

I think the Mets are more likely to sign Zach Day (or even Boots Day) nowa...days.

[30] Or Green Day...

[15] [16] i'm here! i did set my alarm for noon:30, but 'snoozed' for another 45 minutes! : )

70's prog bands it is! let's start with... Gentle Giant!!!

it's funny - i got an email from my brother today about Yes. i'm definitely a fan. i have somewhere between 25-30 Yes cd's. that's not nearly all of 'em! the old shit is freaking amazing. i'm a big Bill Bruford fan. but, Relayer - with Alan White on drums - might be my fave. "Soundchaser" is just unreal. "Heart of the Sunrise" is prolly my fave overall Yes tune, though...

looks like Lackey is boston bound. he sure is ugly enough to be on that team!

i'd say it's worth a million bucks just for us to be able to type "Orgies Timer" for one more season! ; )

[32] The other half of the scuttlebutt about Lackey -> Sawx is that they put Bucholtz in a package for a bat.

And Halladay to Philly story gaining mo too, supposedly shipping Lee to a 3rd team to get ML ready guys to ship to the Jays as part of the trade. Yowza.

[32] I dug some prog rock when I was in high school, first few Yes albums included. But now..Jon Andersen is quite grating...