In a strange way, the defensive foibles of Jorge Posada have made me more bullish on Jesus Montero’s future as a catcher. At one time, I thought that Montero would serve strictly as a first baseman-DH, but now I believe that he may be able to catch–at least for the first three or four seasons of his major league career. Posada’s catching has degraded so badly over the last five years, but that hasn’t stopped the Yankees from winning a world championship along the way. As bad as Posada has become in blocking balls in the dirt, or even catching routine balls and strikes, could Montero be any worse?
I haven’t seen Montero catch at the minor league level, but most of the scouting reports indicate that he has improved from an initial grade of “poor” to merely “below average,” while developing better mechanics to augment a naturally strong throwing arm. That kind of assessment indicates to me that is actually a little bit better than Posada right now. Other than his knowledge of the Yankee pitching staff and American League hitters, Posada really has no defensive strengths. He doesn’t move well, doesn’t have soft hands, and doesn’t block the plate well (he has never done that well). Even his once powerful throwing arm has weakened considerably since shoulder surgery in 2008. If Montero can hit at least as well as Posada–and some assessments of him indicate that he is one of the top five hitting prospects in the game–then the Yankees could live with him as their No. 1 catcher for a few seasons. In the long term, the king-sized Montero may have to move somewhere else simply because he may outgrow the catching position, but that transition may be able to wait until he reaches his mid-twenties.
So what about the immediate future? The Yankees would like to keep Montero at Triple-A Scranton-Wilkes Barre for the entire season, and then bring him to the Bronx for a cameo in September. That schedule would put Montero on track to arrive in New York fulltime in 2011. I could see the Yankees using a three-headed catching monster next season–featuring Posada, Montero, and Francisco Cervelli–before turning over the No. 1 job to Montero in 2012. By that time, Posada’s four-year contract will have expired, making the timing ideal to start the clock on his five-year waiting period for Hall of Fame eligibility. The Yankees could then move prospect Austin Romine into Posada’s roster slot, giving the Bombers three talented and youthful catchers to take them through to the next decade…
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The Yankees quietly made a smart move last week when they claimed outfielder Chad Huffman on waivers from the Padres, based largely on the recommendation of Kevin Towers. He’s the former San Diego GM who is now working as one of Brian Cashman’s lieutenants. A onetime second round draft choice, Huffman is no longer a top prospect, but he has enough of a bat to make him intriguing as a possible backup. Huffman is a poor defender and a slow base runner, but he has above-average power and a knack for hitting with runners in scoring position. If the Yankees run into injury trouble, or if Marcus Thames turns out to be over-the-hill, Huffman could see time in the Bronx this summer. For the time being, he’ll round out a deep Triple-A outfield at Scranton, which also features speed demon Greg Golson in center, and veterans David Winfree, Colin Curtis and column favorite Jon Weber in the corners…
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In a recent article over Dugout Central, columnist “Chuck” provided a listing of notable former major leaguers who are now serving as minor league coaches and managers. Not surprisingly, the list includes a number of former Yankees, though it’s somewhat curious that only one is currently working in the New York system. Let’s run down some of the most intriguing names on the alumni list:
Doug Drabek, at one time a top-shelf Yankee pitching prospect before being included in the ill-fated Rick Rhoden trade, is working as the Diamondbacks’ pitching coach at short-season A-ball. If Drabek can teach some of the Baby Backs that smooth pitching delivery that helped make him successful in Pittsburgh, he’ll do quite well in the Arizona organization. Drabek will also be keeping tabs on son Kyle, who is one of the better pitching prospects in the Blue Jays’ organization…
The elder Ken Griffey is back with the Reds’ organization, despite the fact that his son is now finishing his career as a Mariner. Griffey, now the hitting coach for the Class-A Dayton Dragons, once harbored hopes of becoming a major league manager, but will likely have to settle for an eventual return to the big leagues as a hitting instructor…
The Marlins employ Ron Hassey as the manager of the Jupiter Hammerheads, their affiliate in Class-A. At one time, “The Babe” seemed to be in line for the managing job with the Mariners, but his career became sidetracked. He’ll now try to work his way up the Marlins’ chain…
Column favorite Matt Nokes is back in baseball as a coach with the Potomac Nationals, the A-Ball affiliate of Washington. Don’t worry, Nokes won’t be working with the young Nats on their catching skills; he’ll be the hitting instructor at Potomac this summer…
The White Sox have become a veritable way station for former Yankees. They employ three Yankee alumni, all toiling for their Triple-A affiliate, the Charlotte Knights. The Knights’ hitting coach is Gary Ward and the pitching coach is Rich Dotson; both report to manager Chris Chambliss. I’ve long touted the gentlemanly Chambliss as a deserving big league managerial candidate. The window for Chambliss may have closed–some consider him a career minor league skipper–but some struggling team (the Mets?) would be well advised to give a shot to the 1976 playoff hero…
Joel Skinner never lived up to the hype as a young catcher with the Yankees or White Sox, but there are those who believe he will end up as a very good major league manager. Skinner is currently the skipper for the Akron Aeroes, the Double-A affiliate of the Indians…
Former Yankee right-hander Ray Burris remains with the Tigers’ organization, having worked his way up to the Double-A Erie SeaWolves. Burris is a great communicator and teacher, two characteristics that could land him in Detroit within two to three years.
Neil Allen, an alumnus of the Yankees as both a coach and player, is now the pitching coach for the Charlotte Stone Crabs, a Class-A affiliate of the Rays. Allen had one of the best curve balls of the 1980s; if he can teach that pitch to some of the young Rays, he’ll be well worth his relatively small minor league salary…
Another Yankee of 1980s vintage, Brian Dayett, is now a coach in the Rangers’ system. An outfielder who never quite made the cut for the Yankees or Cubs, Dayett works for the Hickory Crawdads, a short season A-Ball affiliate for the Rangers…
The Blue Jays have two notable ex-Yankees in their system: Dave LaRoche and Sal Fasano. Now the pitching coach for the Las Vegas 51s, the colorful LaRoche is best remembered for his “La Lob” blooper ball pitch, but long before that he was a hard-throwing relief ace for the Indians and Angels. Fasano is one of the game’s newer coaches, having given up the ghost as a journeyman backup catcher to become the manager of the Lansing Lugnuts. And yes, Fasano still has that wonderful 1970s-vintage mustache…
Finally, we can’t forget about Butch Wynegar. The ex-Yankee and Twin receiver remains the Triple-A hitting coach at Scranton, the Yankees’ entry in the International League. He’ll be working with Montero and Kevin Russo, the two best hitting prospects for the Yankees’ top minor league affiliate.
Bruce Markusen, a resident of Cooperstown, has written seven books about our great game.
Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus has said Montero is the best pure hitting prospect in the game, Jason Heyward included. So, yeah, I agree, that bat will carry his defense behind the plate.
I haven't seen Montero behind the plate (planning to go to Scranton several times this summer) but when scouts say he's "below average" are they comparing him to minor leaguers or is that by major league standards? Because if he's below average by minor league standards might that translate to too much of a liability in the bigs?
I hate to admit Po's defense has been slipping. But he's definitely compensating for it with the stick.
The funny thing is the last time Posada's defense really bothered me was 2005. I don't know if was significantly better or worse then, but I thought he was pretty damned bad and not hitting nearly well enough to justify it.
What I don't get is why the Yankees feel the need to suffer Posada behind the plate. He should be the DH, period. If they'd have signed a LF instead of a DH, he could have been just that and the 9 spot could have been Cervelli's or Molina's or whomever's instead of Gardner's.
[4] As long as Posada's hitting outperforms his poor defense, as it is so far this season, they should not even consider wasting him at DH. The question of LF is a separate issue.
[5] I don't think it is separate. If they were going to have a weak spot offensively I think catcher makes more sense than LF, particularly because the catcher is bad at catching. Posada's offense would be worth more if he didn't have to outperform his defense.
When they had Damon in left the question of Po's hitting vs his catching had some weight to it. It seems unnecessary now.
It's funny how the mind works. As I was watching the game last night, and saw glassknees-Matsui slide safely into an out-of-position Posada, I instantly thought to myself "could Montero possibly be any worse?"
[2] Posada's defense has not been 'slipping' but plimmeting to earth like a meteor that even Bruce Willis can't fix.
[4] Chances are said LFer would NOT be as good on D as Gritner, said LFer would have to be as good offensively as NJ, and Gritner will hit better then Cervelli. So chances are you would upgrade D behind the plate, but downgrade D in LF, as well as the offense.
However, your scenerio will play out next year with Montero/Cervelli as C and someone in LF (everyone wants Crawford, but I think he is WAY overpriced).
Mike Piazza will make the HOF only because he is THE best hitting C in MLB history. http://members.tripod.com/bb_catchers/catchers/hoban.htm
We know it is very hard for fans (maybe Managers know?) to qualify how well Catchers handle pitchers and call ballgames. Catcher has always been a Defensive position, along with the esoteric traits of handling pitchers and calling ballgames. My gut tells me that Posada doesn't excel there.... and his D has always been below average.... and currently approaching "I can't believe it".
OPS+ - Player
156 - Piazza
128 - Dickey
127 - Cochrane
127 - Bench
126 - Hartnett
126 - Berra
125 - Posada
123 - Campy
116 - Fisk
116 - Carter
113 - Pudge
Offensively, Posada has an elite bat. I remember a comparsion of RC between Piazza and Pudge. Even though Pizza is way, way better offensively, this article had Pudge's overall value considerably higher. So I wonder how Posada would rate if you compared him to a GREAT defensive Catcher with a 100OPS+.
So maybe Posada makes the HOF.... but it doesn't sit right with me.
I agree with this analysis, but it won't make it any easier to watch Jesus behind the plate for even a few years after enduring Posada. I still hold out some hope that Brains will become a good all-around backstop that can play a lot behind either.
[7] I'm not sold on Gardner's defense - he's fast but judgment seems to be a "learning process" still - but if for instance they had just kept Damon, it would definitely be true.
As far as the esoteric traits you mention, there's no doubt that not "Everybody Loves Jorge". So there's that too, as a reason to minimize his time behind the plate. Maybe at his age it's not a good idea but it could have been or could be something where he still catches twice a week. He could catch Pettitte +1.
Well it's academic until next year I suppose. I like Carl Crawford; we'll see if he's overpriced. He's kind of long in the tooth to be paying for speed but like I say we'll see. Maybe Gardner will blossom this year ... God that's hard to allow for but there you have it.
[8] Re: Cervelli - me too. In fact I see no reason that he can't be. Albeit it's been a small sample size but he looks good to me. He's young enough and seems bright enough that I'd like to think he can get on base (read: walk more) better than he has.
Crikey! Melky is stinking up the joint in ATL thus far! Poor fellow
For you OPS lovers out there, how does .323 grab ya??
[7] OYF, are you saying that Piazza wouldn't/shouldn't make the HoF if he was the 2nd best offensive catcher of all time?
And in news-around-the-league:
DL trips possible for Ellsbury, Cameron
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=5094970
[13] So sad.
I love this quote from Mike Cameron: "I was able to come here and stretch, try to get loose, went outside and ran, but could hardly even walk after that. If there was a dog after me, I had no chance today.''
The Yankees should make Montero a reliever, and Mo's heir.
Because. . . (do I really need to spell it out)
Posada has never been a good catcher. He was moved from being a infielder to a catcher
when he was in the minors. Catching is the hardest position on the field. It takes years of being
behind the plate to be any good, yet alone great. Posada is a hitter that can catch. All good
catchers catch 1st, then hit. They are the Generals on the field. Jorge never reached that role,
for that mattter either has Jeter. Jorge can still hit, just don't ask him to score from 2nd too often.
If one these good hitting prospects can be another Tek, then the future is gold.
Whether he remains as a catcher, the Yankees should be no rush to usher Posada toward retirement. He has shown no signs of slowing with the bat.
[2] Keith Law, for one, is very down on his defensive ability.
[7] I think Posada is getting very close, and if he makes it, it will be well deserved. He is definitely one of the best catchers of all time.
[11] It's been sad to see Melky struggle so much. Just when he had gotten comfortable as a Yankee, he basically has to start all over again.
[16] Were you joking (the Tek reference was pretty funny)? Posada has at the very least been a solid catcher in the past, and both he and Jeter are clearly team leaders.
[17] Yeah, i mean I can't bear to watch Posada run the bases (I'm not gonna blame him because he's slow though) or behind the plate at times, but one thing you can't take away from is his "fiery leader" status.
[7] Another interesting Pro in the Posada-to-the-HOF conversation are the rings. 5 down, and it's conceivable he picks up another this year or next (our team is obv stacked). Berra's 10 almost always get mentioned among his great accomplishments...and even though team accomplishments should get diluted when contemplating a single player, the reality is that not that many guys in history have 6 rings.
Here's the question from another direction: how many (eligible) players with 5 or more rings are NOT in the hall?
[19] There are 34, and nearly every one played at least one season with the Yankees. The non-HoF'er with the most rings is Frankie Crosetti with 8.
[19] Tommy Henrich had 4 rings, and would have had a 5th had he not missed 3 years of baseball serving during WWII. By most accounts, he should be in the Hall, and would be had he not missed those years.
[19] 4 rings, he wasn't on the postseason roster in '96 and only played a handful of games in the regular season. Still, 4 rings is pretty good too.