"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Where & When: Season 2!

Greetings ladies and gents and welcome to a new season of Where and When! No, it wasn’t a dream or a passing fancy of some lunatic minds, it was and is a rather fun puzzle game for our readers to utilize their deductive skills in tracking down the answers to life’s important questions… well, trivial maybe, but all games involve a certain amount of seemingly useless knowledge. Back by popular demand (and a moment to spare in a busy work schedule), I’ve brought to you something new to disseminate and ponder.  But before we get down to the nitty-gritty, a little background for the newcomers to Bronx Banter and/or this game we play…

Earlier in the year, Alex posted an interesting picture here from another site of a New York City landscape from the early part of the 20th century (so near, and yet so far) in which the writer asked help in identifying the location depicted in the picture.  After some pondering and sharing of our observations within the picture, several of our loyal readers (myself included) concluded that the picture was an early photo of Manhattan’s West Side along the Hudson River; facing north from the busy piers near Midtown and peering far into the distance where the George Washington Bridge was just under construction.  By this we were also able to determine the probable date the photo was taken.  Riverside Drive was the dominant roadway, but the Henry Hudson Parkway was also under construction at the moment the picture was taken.

It was a fun undertaking, as I later wrote to Alex, and I suggested making a game out of it.  “You’re hired” he responded, and I’ve been the administrator of this effort ever since. I’ve experimented with rules and formats throughout, trying to make it fair and more involving for everyone as our readers are so widely dispersed that some miss out on the game due to the difference in time from here to there part of the globe, but I’ve compensated in creative ways to involve them as well.  In the end, I settled for a free exchange of ideas and suggestions with the stipulation that whoever answers he questions fully explain the process they used to find the answers (the journey can be equally as, if not more entertaining than the destination itself).  The winners (the first person to answer the questions correctly) would receive a theoretical root beer; a Banter tradition that began with the jinxing of anyone who posted an identical comment to the comment prior to his or her own.  The rest of the players were given cream sodas as a consolation prize for playing.  I had something special in mind for the person who tabulated the most wins in a year, but because my work schedule began to interfere with regularly scheduled postings, I tabled that idea for the time being (but it’s still under consideration).

About the scheduling; I tried to adhere to a two or three-a-week schedule of games, but I ran into two big problems: life (big problem, supersedes everything fun) and supply.  I am a bit of a perfectionist, so I try to find interesting challenges for these games and generally avoid stock footage of standard New York City easy-to-identify landmarks. There are many sites with different photos of many places around the city, but even some of those are nondescript and would not provide a fair amount of clues to present as a challenge.  So with those limitations, I’ve often found myself painted into a corner concerning what to present.  Alex and I have discussed this at length and he has encouraged me to open my definition of what I consider interesting challenges as it were, bearing in mind that some people may be seeing these locales for the first time.  With that in mind, I am being more open minded about what to present so that I don’t run out of material and also to allow one of my main goals to come into fruition: to educate and enlighten our readers and players about the history and appreciation of our great city and its region of influence.  The most important thing to remember is that it is a game and was born from and meant for fun.

So let’s have some fun, shall we?

Where & When S2 G1 C

Here we have an aerial photo of a region within the city that you may or may not recognize from certain features within the picture.  I think this is an easy one, but I’m sure that those of you not native to the region will want to look up some of the details in whatever manner you use to research. I can say this much, the features in this picture give a good indication of the time period of this photo, so I don’t have to drop many hints.  If you get it within the correct decade, you’ll get credit for the when answer.  So, if you answer Where this picture dipicts and When it was likely taken, you will win our traditional first prize, a frosty mug of high-quality root beer (which is always up for discussion).  As a bonus, if you can identify at least two major features within this photo with proper names from the time it was taken, you will get a scoop of ice cream to add to your root beer, making it a root beer float of course.  All players who participate in the discussion will receive a cold mug of cream soda for your efforts.  I will try to return during the latter part of the day to reveal the answers and discuss any trivia or history that’s associated.  You are all free to discuss whatever you like about it, but please avoid using the direct link in the photo credit (unless you find it during your research) and also as discussed before, show your math.

So ladies and gents, welcome back and have fun!

photo credit: Wired New York

21 comments

1 Ben   ~  Oct 24, 2014 11:48 am

That's the train bridge next to the RFK (Triboro) bridge. The Amtrack runs there on it's way to CT from Penn Station. Always wondered how they got from 34th street west side to Astoria...

2 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2014 11:48 am

Very cool!
I will chime in first with the location: we're looking at Roosevelt Island, the long skinny one half in the distance, with the Queensboro Bridge spanning the East River running over it. Central Park is clearly visible on the right, so we know that's the Queensboro because it crosses just around 59th St.
Closer is Randall's Island with Ward's Island next to it; they are now one island. (You can see the island and the relatively new foot bridge from my parents' living room window on 90th St, eastern edge of Manhattan, so I didn't have to do a lot of research for this one!)

It's definitely before 1960, which is when the Little Hell's Gate was filled to unify the two islands. Hm, it looks well before that but I'm not seeing the more definite clues...

Anyway that's a start.

3 Ben   ~  Oct 24, 2014 11:49 am

My comment is awaiting moderation. Wonder why.

4 Ben   ~  Oct 24, 2014 11:50 am

It's before 1936 when the Triboro was built.
After 1917 when the Hell's Gate was built.

5 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2014 11:51 am

Oh, well, duh, it looks like the Triborough has not even been started, so it's before 1929.

6 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2014 11:52 am

Aha, thank you, Ben. (Triborough was finished in 1936, but work was begun in 1929.)

So, it's the 1920's.

7 Chyll Will   ~  Oct 24, 2014 12:51 pm

[1] Hmm, Roosevelt Island was called something else when this picture was taken... ?

8 Bronx Boy in NC   ~  Oct 24, 2014 1:01 pm

(Squinting to not look at earlier comments)

Where: That's Randall's and Wards Islands, viewed from the north.

When: It has to be after 1916 when Hell Gate Bridge opened.

Many of the familiar things missing from the picture -- the Triboro Bridge, the sewage treatment plant, and Downing Stadium -- all date from 1936 or 1937. The filling in of Little Hell Gate to join the two islands is also from the mid-30s. The FDR Drive is also absent, which puts us before 1934. But that's still an 18-year span.

I'm going to squint and say the Astoria Park Memorial to WWI veterans isn't there yet either, which means it's earlier than 1926, so we're in the decade between 1916 and 1926.

9 rbj   ~  Oct 24, 2014 1:31 pm

It's no earlier than 1903.

10 rbj   ~  Oct 24, 2014 1:43 pm

"early aerial photographs of new york city" didn't work.
Looks to be the Triborough Bridge.
"early aerial photographs of the triborough bridge" didn't bring up that photo, but did give me a similar one here:
http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/infrastructure/c1.html
It it opened for traffic in 1936, I'm going to go late 1930s for the date

11 TheGreenMan   ~  Oct 24, 2014 1:52 pm

[6] It was known as Welfare Island if the picture was taken after 1921, and before that it was known as Blackwell's Island. Per the wiki gods. From the comments above, it looks like it was Blackwell's at that point.

12 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2014 2:01 pm

No, it was "Welfare Island", since the pic is from the 1920s.

Huh, I actually didn't know that -- I had heard of Welfare Island but for some reason I thought it was a different island.

13 TheGreenMan   ~  Oct 24, 2014 2:07 pm

[11] Ah...re-read the earlier comments. You're correct. I saw after 1917 but before 1929. Anyone come up with an exact date yet?

14 Alex Belth   ~  Oct 24, 2014 2:55 pm

Man, it's good to have you back, Will. Great comments, too.

15 Chyll Will   ~  Oct 24, 2014 3:32 pm

[11] I had the same thought time and time again. I believe most of the greater islands of the East River were from the 1800s into the 1960s when the city was experiencing a financial near-death experience were utilized primarily for social services of some sort; I kept mixing Wards Island with Welfare Island, especially considering Ward's Island housed primarily welfare institutions of various sorts, while Welfare Island was primarily mental institutions, hospitals and penitentiaries.

16 Chyll Will   ~  Oct 24, 2014 3:36 pm

Great to be here, B!

17 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Oct 24, 2014 4:48 pm

Thanks for continuing the learning and fun!
Unless I'm crazy, there is no Triboro bridge in this photo. Just the railroad Hellgate bridge opened in 1916. There is also no sign of the Chrysler or Empire State Buildings.
No sign of any pre-construction of the Triboro.
No power plants
I'm guessing 1920.

18 Chyll Will   ~  Oct 24, 2014 4:59 pm

You're not crazy. And I'd love to verify the answers in detail, but my iPhone keeps freezing and I'm not near my computer (nor will I be anytime soon), so let me just say you've all got the area is right and the year is 1925. I'll fill in the blanks tomorrow morning.

19 rbs   ~  Oct 24, 2014 6:12 pm

Others have pointed out that its Randalls and Wards Islands in the midground with the Hell Gate Bridge in place but no sign of the Triborough. Ergo, the 1920s.

Based on what I've been able to find out, the year is 1927. The site where I found that info says that the photo appeared in the January 1928 issue of National Geographic, but I'm still trying to confirm.

20 rbs   ~  Oct 24, 2014 8:48 pm

[18] Confirmed. The photo did appear in the Jan 1928 National Geo in an article titled "Seeing America with Lindbergh".

21 Shaun P.   ~  Oct 27, 2014 9:44 am

I'm late to the party but just wanted to say that I am thrilled to see "Where and When" make a return!

feed Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email
"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver