I like to think I have a firm command of the obvious. To wit, the Orioles, who at 3-16 are four games worse than the next worst team in baseball less than 20 games into the season, aren’t this bad. After all, no team in baseball history has ever finished with a sub .200 winning percentage (the O’s are at .158 entering this week’s three-game series against the Yankees in Baltimore), and the O’s don’t profile as one of the worst teams in baseball history. What’s more, their Pythagorean winning percentage has them at a less compellingly awful .316.
Coming into the season, I thought that this would be the year the rebuilding O’s would slip past the directionless Blue Jays into fourth place, and I still feel that way. The Orioles have a solid collection of good young talent, some of which is still in the process of establishing itself in the major leagues, some of which could arrive in the bigs as the season progresses, and some of which may not even make it until next year or beyond. For that reason, when prescribing off-season strategies for all 30 teams for SI.com back in November, I said the Orioles needed to “avoid trying to buy in too early . . . Once those pieces have established themselves, the O’s can open up the coffers and flesh out the roster, but for now they’ll let [free agent Melvin] Mora go and should stick with inexpensive veteran stop-gaps in the infield . . . while giving the youngsters their opportunities.”
That’s exactly what the O’s did in bringing back the 36-year-old Miguel Tejada to play third base for $6 million, signing deposed Rockies third baseman Garrett Atkins to play first base for $4.5 million, and sticking with Cesar Izturis, on the second year of a two-year, $5 million contract, at shortstop. In a way, wins aren’t really what the O’s are after just yet. General Manager Andy MacPhail has been in enough rodeos to know that there’s no point shooting for a fluky 83-win division title in a division that also contains the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays. Instead, he’s taking his time, trying to get his kids established and sort the prospect wheat out from the remaining chafe. That sort of strategy can lead to exactly the sort of growing pains the O’s are experiencing now, but misfortune can create opportunity.
With the team desperate to get off the floor, manager Dave Trembley has found an excuse to bench the struggling rental Atkins in favor of minor leaguer Rhyne Hughes. Hughes is a 26-year-old rookie and not among the team’s better prospects, but he hit .301/.357/.510 in his Triple-A debut last year, and his time is now if ever. Hughes was the return for sending Gregg Zaun to the Rays in early August of last year, and if Hughes turns out to be a solid major leaguer, that’s essentially free production. If that happens, the decision to effectively leave first base “open” by signing Atkins will have been key to getting something for nothing there. Hughes has gone 4-for-9 with a walk in his first two major league games, one of which was the O’s third win of the season. That’s not terribly meaningful, but it’s better than having starting off with an 0-fer. Hughes is additionally compelling because the O’s top first-base prospect, Brandon Snyder, really isn’t. Snyder hits for average with some doubles, but he doesn’t walk much, doesn’t have significant home run power, and isn’t anything special in the field.
The O’s are much better off at third base, where they can thank another slick late-season deal for Josh Bell, who arrived from the Dodgers for lefty reliever George Sherrill at last year’s trading deadline. Bell is a big, power-hitting third baseman who is making his Triple-A debut this year and could be among the O’s prospects to arrive in the majors mid-year. There’s some concern about Bell’s defense at the hot corner, which makes him a peripheral concern in the first base picture as well, but wherever he plays, he should be a mid-lineup presence for the O’s in the very near future.
Add Bell and possibly Hughes to a lineup that already includes Matt Wieters and the outfield of Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, and Nolan Reimold, and the O’s have a solid young core that can be complimented through free agency or more deft trades. Before that can happen, however, those youngsters have to get their feet under them in the majors, which only Markakis has done thus far. Wieters and Jones are just 24 and Wieters, off to a solid start this year, has less than a full season of major league experience under his belt. Reimold, who like Markakis is 26 this season, is closer to Hughes than the other four and still needs to prove he’s a major league starter. The flip-side of the Atkins-Hughes situation is that the team’s start has been so bad that is has shortened the leash for lesser prospects such as Reimold. Despite a significant injury which will keep his primary left-field rival Felix Pie out until at least mid-season, Reimold, off to a slow start, has begun losing playing time to the still-older, still-lesser ex-prospect Lou Montanez (though Montanez is in the process of playing himself out of the lineup as well).
On the mound, the O’s have upgraded their brutal 2009 rotation by acquiring veteran Kevin Millwood, on the last year of his contract and thus effectively on another one-year deal, from the Rangers for reliever Chris Ray, who struggled mightily last year in his first year back from Tommy John surgery. More importantly, they’re already getting strong work from lefty Brian Matusz, who was the fourth overall pick in the 2008 draft and is a budding front-of-the-rotation starter and a popular pre-season pick for the American League Rookie of the Year. Millwood and Matusz effectively push Jeremy Guthrie down to the third spot in the rotation. Guthrie is still overextended, even as a number-three, and the final two spots are still filled by pitchers who probably shouldn’t even be in the majors, but that major league mediocrity is again just thin cover for budding prospects including Chris Tillman–who came over with Jones, Sherrill, and reliever Kam Mickolio in the Erik Bedard deal and got a taste of the majors last year at age 21–Jake Arrieta, a 2007 draft pick out of college who could join Tillman in the big league rotation later this year, and Brandon Erbe, who is making his Triple-A debut this year at age 22.
So the O’s have half a lineup, half a rotation, and following a shoulder injury suffered by fragile free agent closer Mike Gonzalez, not much to speak of in the bullpen, but those component parts remain compelling and potential building blocks of a future contender in Baltimore. Right now the Orioles aren’t a good team, but they’re not as bad as they’ve looked in the early going, and are continually getting better. The Orioles should move into fourth place for the first time since 2007, but they’ll still finish with their 13th-straight losing season, yet there remains reason for optimism in Baltimore.
Baltimore Orioles
2010 Record: 3-16 (.158)
2010 Pythagorean Record: 6-13 (.316)
2009 Record: 64-98 (.395)
2009 Pythagorean Record: 69-93 (.426)
Manager: Dave Trembley
General Manager: Andy MacPhail
Home Ballpark: Oriole Park at Camden Yards
Bill James Park Indexes (2007-2009):
LH Avg-104, LH HR-115
RH Avg-107, RH HR-129
Who’s Replaced Whom:
25-man roster:
1B – Rhyne Hughes (L)
2B – Ty Wigginton (R)
SS – Cesar Izturis (S)
3B – Miguel Tejada (R)
C – Matt Wieters (S)
RF – Nick Markakis (L)
CF – Adam Jones (R)
LF – Lou Montanez (R)
DH – Luke Scott (L)
Bench:
R – Nolan Reimold (OF)
R – Garrett Atkins (1B/3B)
R – Julio Lugo (IF)
R- Craig Tatum (C)
Rotation:
R – Kevin Millwood
R – Jeremy Guthrie
L – Brian Matusz
R – David Hernandez
R – Jason Berken
Bullpen:
R – Jim Johnson
R – Cla Meredith
L – Will Ohman
R – Matt Albers
L – Mark Hendrickson
R – Kam Mickolio
L – Alberto Castillo
15-day DL:
2B – Brian Roberts (strained abdominal muscle)
RHP – Koji Uehara (strained left hamstring)
LHP – Mike Gonzalez (strained left shoulder)
60-day DL:
OF – Felix Pie (surgery to repair ruptured latissimus dorsai)
Typical Lineup:
R – Lou Montanez (LF)
R – Adam Jones (CF)
L – Nick Markakis (RF)
R – Miguel Tejada (3B)
L – Luke Scott (DH)
S – Matt Wieters (C)
R – Ty Wigginton (2B)
L – Rhyne Hughes (1B)
S – Cesar Izturis (SS)
It makes me so very happy to see the Orioles and Angelos doing so much worse than the Nationals. In know it won't last, but if they could end the season close, I'd be happy.
great opening line cliff.
i agree with your assessment of the o's.
No game on TeeVee and I am now officially boycotting Sterling/Waldman. So, I'll be phollowing Phil on Gameday.
[3] you don't get the my9 games?
what put you over the edge with suzyn and john?
i feel like i haven't seen a game in forever -the only game i watched on the wc trip was the saturday fox game.
I think this is the year The O's pass the Jays too.
Just not the week.
Sweep them.
Nick Johnson was supposed to be back today.
It begins
Huh. That at bat had "walk" written all over it, and then Teix goes and does something like that.
Can't predict baseball.
[4] Nope. In Canadia I am at the mercy of Rogers Sports Net. When Toronto plays, 90% of the time that is the game that is carried. If Toronto is off, or if the Yankees or Sox play at 10:00 (and the Jays are at 7:00), then sometimes the Yankees are carried regardless of the original feed (My9 or Yes).
What put me over the edge with those two? Nothing in particular...I just began to notice how little I like listening to them call the game. I actually ceased to enjoy the game and spent the entire time complaining about their idiocy. So, I'd rather just follow on gameday + banter.
I really need to spring the $20 for the MLB.tv audio package.
[6] ark my words, read my lips, let me perfectly clear, hear my now and listen to me later:
NJ will have 450 PAs this season.
[9] Mark my words...
Grrr.
[9] I hope so. I just know we've already had our first missed return with him though.
That speedster Posada
I'm shocked that Kay is that naive to think the Prez knows all the minutiae of all the players ....
Hey Michael ... the Prez has a ton of people researching EVERY PUBLIC APPOINTMENT he has .... so of course he's going to appear to be in the know ...
(not that Obama isn't smart, and a baseball fan, but c'mon)
hey everyone.
There went the no-hitter.
Damn Kay...
I've always thought Luke Scott looked like Damon
I can't hear the name "Luke Scott" without associating him with Luke Cage (Power Man). There isn't much of a resemblance.
Luke, I am your pitcher, Luke.
Does anyone else think Rhyne's mom named him Rhyne as an anagram of Henry?
i suppose this umpire just doesnt like calling strikes?
[20] only if you were his mom :}
[8] gotcha.
[8] dude, know what I find kind of funny? Sterling and Waldman aren't that bad. Seriously. Tune in some other games.. they can be fucking boring. John n Suzyn might be wacky and confuse you, and even just totally BOTCH calls here and there, but they're never boring.
Grrrr... c'mon Hughesy. Induce a DP.
Evening, Team.
What's up with Phil?
We really don't need this right now.
[21] wally bell is not the greatest. i am actually a bit dismayed i know as many umps as i do.
Where the fuck was that pitch?!? a goddamn strike!
Oh Christ.
wow meat tray warming up already
did phil hughes just walk in a run? wtf?
Nice.
according to gameday, 5 of the last 8 "balls" were strikes
Thank you Phil. Thank you lordy.
good - that is just what hughes needed
[31] 5 of 10
Jones must not have seen that ball at all ....
That ball looked playable.
Time for Captain RBI
Evening, all
[23] To each his own. I'm a boring guy...I like boring. Wheneer I get the chance, I listen to the away feed over the home feed.
Who's driving?
It was nice while Kay was gone.
[38] fair 'nuff brother.
Ball not caught in center, double play not made.
That's how you get to be 3-16, eh?
Let's go, Go-Go Gardner!
These guys suck.
Again, no wonder they're 3-16.
Wtf?
You can only hope to contain him...
just so you know, the "strike" to gardner was higher than the high "balls" hughes threw to reimold.
Damn it.
jesus. fucking smoked it.
Oh, Alex.
Come on, Robbie, nice and easy.
[51] But not too easy.
[52] heh heheh heh heh. But not too easy.
Fuck.
Fuck.
too high
Who'd he get together, Michael? The core who?
So what's the Rx for a pitcher who's getting fouled off too much (and therefore using too many pitches)?
So, both starters gone after five?
[56] Good question. Tejada's a good hitter. Always a tough out. No idea what to do with him.
nice snag, Brett!
[58] It means he's pitching better than a guy who gets Tejada to pop out, I figure. A foul is more of a miss than a pop-out. Do you tell Phil to pitch just a tiny bit worse??
on Eutaw Street! or however the f you spell it!
That was nice
Nicely done, Jorgie.
Man, that HR had some SERIOUS red ass on it.
Oh, sure. Now.
[60] Interesting...is a foul necessarily more of a miss than a pop out? One could argue that there are 'quality fouls'---line drives that hook just foul, or a fouling a ball straight back with a well timed swing.
[60] Yeah, I was thinking it all depends on what you mean by "miss." A pop out is good timing but less wood, right, whereas a foul can be tonnes of wood but funky timing.
[66] [67] True, could be.
But there are also plenty of "low quality" fouls, too. Fouled straight back, dribbled foul, popped into the seats, and of course tipped.
[68] I wonder how many batters actually willfully foul of pitches, that is, "spoiling" tough pitches with two strikes to extend an AB?
hughes is getting frustrated with this umplord
[69] fwiw, i have heard stories that manny tells other hitters that he willfully fouls off tough pitches with 2 strikes.
i would bet many good hitters at least try to do that.
A few too many 8-, 9- and 10-pitch ABs for Mr. Hughes.
good thing po was backing that up.
[72] On cue, Wiggington obliges.
[69] I think lots of hitters do it. Any ab that gets drawn out is probably an example of that.
I wonder how "safe" it is to foul off pitches. I mean, how easy would it be to hit a weak grounder by mistake?
[75] If so, then in those cases a foul ball is less of miss than a pop out; rather, each foul ball is a victory by the batter in spoiling a pitch he can't handle and forcing the pitcher to keep working.
[77] It's definitely a better result.
I'm very skeptical that good batters can just foul off pitches at will. If they could, then the Yanks could remove the opposing starter in the first inning.
[76] I see it happen sometimes. Damon, e.g., was a master at it but would sometimes put it in play when he clearly didn't mean to.
[76] I guess it only makes sense to try to foul off a pitch when (a) there are two strikes, (b) the batter feels that he can't make a legitimate effort to get a hit, and (c) believes the pitch will be called a strike.
[78] Surely no batter could foul off pitches at will any more than he can get a hit at will. The question is how often (if at all) batters attempt to foul a pitch off on purpose and succeed in doing so.
Jeter has been extremely hacktastic lately.
Our offense seems to have cooled considerably in the past week or so.
[81]
I think any high-average hitter (Boggs, Ichiro) is proficient in fouling off pitches seemingly at will
Game thread interruption: Am listening to my favorite morning DJ over coffee this morning, this song is on that's endless and over-the-top..realize it's "Jungleland" by Springsteen. For a second I thought it was "Scenes from an Itlaian Restaurant" by Billy Joe..Bruce has the cred and Billy gets made fun of (by me too!) but really..aren't they kind of the same guy? Un-funky, un-soulful songwrtiers whose lyrics tend toward the bombastic? After "Jungleland" some Wilson Pickett came on, it was like sunshine after the storm..so crisp, soulful and funky..ok, back to baseball!
How's Philthy Phranchise doing?
[85] Give me your address. Clarence Clemons wants to kick your ass.
That was awful.
Terrible wave by Alex.
Come on, team, focus.
[84] Rule 6.05 (d), bunting foul with two strikes is an out, presumes that batters can more or less foul balls off at will when bunting.
[86] Bring it on, big guy! :)
[88] And that I can certainly believe. A good bunter.
But I think if Ichiro could really do it swinging... he would. He would remove the starter before the guy got an out, or they'd have to walk him to prevent him from doing it.
Come out, quick inning here and maybe six for Phil.
I can hardly believe the amount of foul balls we've seen off of Hughes tonight.
Makes for a boring game
[92] But interesting (?) game thread discussion.
[88] It's easier still while bunting, is all. "At will" doesn't mean "every single time without fail," it just means to a very high degree of success, whatever that means. Sometimes guys'll foul off six, seven, eight pitches and then swing right through a nasty pitch in the dirt or a high fastball or whatever.
[90] I think it also depends on location. I'm not sure it's as easy to do if the ball is down the middle, so eventually, Ichiro would get one of those and put it in play.
[94] Wasn't Rod Carew the master of that? Good cricket batters like Sachin Tendulkar can "foul off" balls for up to 4 hours..it's hypnotic and insane to watch..
[96] Yeah, I was thinking of cricket. One of the coaches on my son's little league team is a cricket player and his batsmanship is just crazy. In his hands, the bat becomes almost like a tennis racket.
Phil won't come out for the sixth.
I hope Ace is ready to go.
[97] But a cricket bat is much bigger. The face is huge.
[94] No "is all" about it. There would be no need for the rule if the Lords of Baseball did not determine back in the day that a batter could bunt off pitches essentially at will.
And for what it's worth, in the strictest sense "at will" means "whenever you want", not "very high degree of success."
Also for what it's worth, my original query [69] was actually whether hitters sometimes "willfully" fouled off pitches (that is, they try intentionally to foul off a pitch, regardless of the success rate), not whether they did so "at will".
[100] Right. And back to my original question...
When they're fouling off dozens of Phil's pitches, even assuming that they're sometimes trying to do it, that means his stuff is better than if there were lots of three-pitch at bat outs. Right?
[99] Plus in cricket there is no "foul" territory and the batter never *has* to run. The balance is tilted greatly in the batter's favor, so it is *relatively* easy for a cricket batter to keep making minor contact (simply protecting the wicket without really trying to score runs) for long stretches of time..."at will" as it were!
[100] I don't know where the "at will" came from.
The answer to 69 is yes, depending on what you mean. Does "fighting off a pitch" equal "willfully fouling it off?"
Agggggghh.
Fuck.
ATTN Cano: You are slow.
Why are we involved in a ballgame with a 3-16 team in the top of the sixth?
[102] But you miss just ONCE in cricket and that's it, you're out for the day. Brian Lara once scored 501 runs not-out..amazing achievment! Ichiro & Boggs would both have been top cricketers for sure.
[101] I'm not so sure about that. It may be that three-pitch outs indicate his stuff is so deceptive that batters try to hit pitches but fail repeatedly, whereas numerous long ABs with lots of two-strike fouls may indicate that his stuff is not good enough to prevent the batters from spoiling pitches.
[103] Diane gave us 'at will' [84].
Yeah, for the purposes of this discussion I would consider "fighting off a pitch" to be a willful act.
[106] Because some things you just can't predict. Fouling off pitches and baseball are one of them.
Is Phil phinished, or does he come out for the sixth inning?
[108] Good, good. Would you likewise accept an "emergency hack" as a willful act?
[109] :)
[109] Thanks, Pa Sterling :)
Just saw Rob Neyer rate Dusty P higher than our man Robbie..very surprising..am sure it's close but would need to read the stats carefully..doesn't the Fenway boost really elevate Dusty?
[108] Wait, how do three pitch at bats indicate that batters are trying to hit but failing repeatedly? His stuff isn't good enough to prevent the batters from spoiling pitches when they foul it off, the other guy's stuff is so good that he makes them ground out?
Ok, Granderson needs to hit.
Someone needs to hit.
No one's hitting.
Maybe Robbie's still hitting.
Someone needs to hit.
FUCKING FUCK, JORGIE.
God damn you!
oh dear jesus - po pulled out one of his favorite tricks
Good evening!
[85] This game is so boring that there has been nothing to say...until the Springsteen comment. I have been following BBB since last year, and your taste in music has been spot on, citing both important and obscure jazz albums and artists. But to sum up Springsteen's career based on a bombastic, mid 70's track when he was riding the height of his popularity and feeding the Columbia Records marketing machine is just not fair. His body of work will stand the test of time, and his intentions have always been sincere. You don't have to love him to appreciate that.
Jorge Posada is the worst baserunner I've ever seen
[108]
I gave us SEEMINGLY at will :=)
[111] What is an emergency hack? I was being a little cagey at [108]. I do think there is a difference between getting fooled by a tough two0strike pitch but managing to make contact, and recognizing a tough pitch and just getting some wood on it to stay alive. Announcers might call both "fighting off" the pitch, but only the second one really conforms to "willfully fouling" the ball to spoil the pitch.
[114] Wait, now I'm confused.
[120] Yes you did, Diane. Yes you did. Take a bow.
:)
Buchholz looked very shaky in the first inning, but has been dealing since then.
tex really has quick reflexes at 1b
[118] Good morning! I was being a little provocative, actually like Bruce's acoustic stuff. The epic songs just don't do it though..he's sincere for sure.
Glad to see another jazz head on the Banter as well!
Well, I'm surprised to see him in the sixth, but pleased.
[121] But the only way you can get fooled by a tough two-strike pitch and still manage to make contact is if you're in "foul-it-off-at-will" mode. In other words, you let it travel a half an inch (or whatever it is) deeper into the zone than you would were you looking to put it in play.
phew .... thanks for that gutty performance phil ...
[114] It *could* theoretically be possible that short ABs result from batters being completely fooled: "I tried to intentionally foul the ball but the movement was so good I missed;" "I thought I had that one squared but I was fooled and grounded out weakly."
But long ABs could, again theoretically, result from a pitcher's stuff being good enough to prevent the batter from getting a hit, but not good enough to fool him, thus allowing the batter to foul off pitches willfully, assuming that batters can do this: "ah, here comes the cutter on the corner...I can't square it but there are two strikes so I'll just foul it off...yep, I was right."
Yeah, Phil was living on borrowed time. Better yank him now.
[130] Got it. Yes, the long ab makes sense.
I think that's exactly right.
[128] I'm not sure I agree. Are you suggesting that a batter who is fooled can never make lesser contact even accidentally?
[130] Sure, could, theoretically.
I'm saying, unless some batters have a very high success rate at willfully fouling off pitches, the long at-bats indicate that they can't hit the pitcher's stuff. They indicate that the hurler is throwing very well, but not quite well enough to "finish".
Does this situation indicate that Boone Logan is the LOOGY, the guy you trust in a tight game, the middle reliever, or the guy on the end of the bench who doesn't have an ordained role so you just put him in because well you know the sixth inning isn't the eighth inning.
I hate having two lefties
Oh, I get it. Lefty specialist. Now we know why Boone is on the roster.
Ahh, he walked Scott, so that must mean that Logan is the LOOGY [135].
[135] He's one of the guys you can count on to come in and walk an arbitrary lefty.
[139] Why don't we christen that player the "MattPat specialist"?
[130] I was thinking that, as well. That can be extending into saying that Phil's pitches are more predictable than he would hope... in other words, they're guessing right on the pitch, but just need to find the location.
Orrrr... maybe the O's are just going up and attacking Phil. More swings = more foul balls. After all, they saw his last start, too.
Two on, one out for Ugly...
Flies out.
Up to JD...
[139] I HATE having two lefties.
[133] Not sure I understand. The only way you can make any contact if you're fooled is to leave something back. That means that from the get-go you're not planning on swinging for maximum power.
"Lesser contact accidentally." I mean, I guess if you're not fooled that badly, if you swing really hard but the pitch turns out to be a cutter so you don't square it up but still manage to make some contact? Is that what you mean?
[144] Yes, that's what I meant. It's a game of inches, after all. ; )
[134] Yes. I think that's right. What you have is a stalemate, a battle, as it were. The pitcher cannot finish off the batter, nor can the batter put a well-struck ball in play.
[140] Its still probably preferable to having Phil Coke come in and give up a HR to a lefty, but I don't get the point.
[142] They pitched around Drew. Ortiz with two outs, bases juiced...
This inning is lining up to piss me off royally.
fucking christ what was that throw
What the bloody fuck was that?
fuck fuck
grumble grumble
[147] I like it when Dave comes in and plugs somebody.
I hate having two lefties.
[148] PH for Ortiz.
I'm fucking furious.
Wtf was that throw?
And why are we 2-2 against a 3-16 team in the bottom of the sixth.
He fucking fell down.
[157] And why are we 2-2 against a 3-16 team in the bottom of the sixth.
Baseball ≠ able to be predicted.
Jeez, this game is dulling the Yankee's competitive edge. Hughes pitched ok, but against a real hitting line-up what would the score be now? And the base running has been less than major league. The team is sinking to the occasion.
But...hopefully they'll play just good enough to win.
[157] Anyone notice that "fell down" is infinitely more funny than just "fell?"
[158] 最高！
someone give Kay a bagel and shut him up
this inning is bullshit
You have GOT to be kidding me.
We're going to lose to fucking Baltimore?
How humiliating.
[156] Yup.
And with a righty on the mound. Gulp.
A righty who can't find the strike zone...
Was there any particular reason Hughes couldn't finish this inning?
[160] Hah ah ah ah ah ah a ha ha ha ha h !!!
Indeed!
Amazing. Gregg walks Lowell on four pitches.
[162] a bagel is not sufficient to shut him up
The wonders of the internet: without watching or listening to the game, I could still follow in excruciating pain as Cano is caught stealing, Po screws up on the base paths, the LHP walks the lefty, the RF can't make a throw, and now Robertson implodes.
[166] agreed. shoulda let him go for the quality start.
[164] Unacceptable under any conditions. I don't care that it's April, the Orioles are apallingly bad..we shouel sweep them easily..
fucking hell - pull robertson now if you want to win this game
I hate when Girardi over-manages ...
What a glorious thing it is to lose to a 3-16 team.
[171] I picture Joe Girardi pacing around the dugout muttering "Gotamakeamove gotamakeamove gotamakeamove"
Its why giving this man a second lefty was a disastrously bad idea.
Goddamit.
[172] dude, you make it sound like they're a HS team. They're still a professional team! A sweep is never easy. But we should goddamn win the series easily.
[170]
and none of us make you think of sterling or kay :-)
Dave Trembley with a page out of Girardi's book: the trail runner PR.
ok i stopped paying attention for a couple minutes. why the fuck did he take out hughes?
I think pulling Hughes was a reasonable decision.
He'd thrown a lot of pitches, and they were hitting the ball very hard.
Another close game and another possible loss engineered by Joe Girardi. His inability to manage the game is really the only thing holding this team back. Thankfully, they have enough talent to overcome him, but it's a shame that's even necessary.
[178] I don't know, watched them against the Red Sox last weekend, awful D, bullpen guys walked everyone, terrible managing...embarrasing to watch
[180] Remember when he did the trail runner pinch runner with Wilson Betemit, who, among the many reasons he was one of the worst players in baseball, was probably he slowest man on a team that included Giambi and Posada?
[179] I have a special voice in my head for each of you.
[184] and we should see our share of the horrible defense. But the team is still made up of pro ball players. The difference is they'll click 1 out of every 4 games, and the Yanks 3 out of every 4. or 4:5 maybe.
[182] He pulled him because he got bored and Logan happened to pitch with his left hand.
We're not going to score any more runs tonight, are we?
[186] Oh God
Randy Winn is bad at baseball.
randy winn is not off to a blazing start in pinstripes or road greys.
[187] Right. We go through this every year, it seems. The Yanks get snaked in an early series by the O's or some similar crappy team, and this site lights up with folks demanding a sweep.
I would, however, be happier if the offense didn't look so totally asleep.
[193] Well, Kevin Millwood, come on. No-hit-stuff.
[193] well, I'm with you fellers there.
[193] They're not just crappy, they're 3-16! And we were playing so well until a few days ago.
And Tampa is playing well.
This is an eminently winnable game that we'll end up losing.
The Yankees are going throug a stretch where they really aren't hitting or pitching well, but they could have still won the last three games they've lost if Girardi was infatuated with making needless bullpen moves. This team will hit and it will pitch, but the manager will always be a liability.
all the sudden that fucker wants to call strikes. Grrrrrrr
Oh Jesus
[193] That's my point; it does look totally asleep, no?
That's what's--say it with me now--unacceptable.
Tooopessimisticpizza?
[197] I feel bad for the guy, (not really) But if Cashman had balls he'd cut Logan after the game. Girardi is always going to make MOVEZ for whatever reason ( I think he has some La Russa in him), but I think he's less likely to make a pitching MOVE in the sixth if he only has one lefty.
[196] They’re not just crappy, they’re 3-16!
Well, yes. But to quote the master [0]: To wit, the Orioles, who at 3-16 are four games worse than the next worst team in baseball less than 20 games into the season, aren’t this bad.
Shut up, Michael.
Wieters is a big boy, huh?
[201] Ah yes...not very much tooptimism around these parts tonight!
[202] Would you cut Logan or Marte?
[202] It's not Cashman's fault that Girardi can't manage the bullpen. There is no reason to pull Hughes with 109 pitches and 2 outs in the inning. It's simply a case of Girardi making a move for its own sake. He did that all last year, and it cost them. Luckily, the team was ridiculously good. They are similarly talented this season, so hopefully it wont make a difference, but when you compare the Rays to the Yankees the biggest edge for Tampa is in the dugout.
[203] Of course not, but fuck that, let them creep back to their level on someone else's watch. We should have the swagger and the intensity to just beat them down *at will!* Especially when they've not exactly played a crisp baseball game.
[207] I'm more forgiving of Girardi than you are. But assuming for sake of argument you are right, how much responsibility does Cashman bear for not Girardi-proofing (à la Torre0proofing) the roster?
[206] Logan. Marte is just better and has some ability against righties
[207] I'm not saying its Cashman's fault. But he has the power to take a sharp object away from Girardi
[203] Plus, we've been losing lately and it would have seemed like leaving California and going to Baltimore would be a gift.
I'm just pissed at this horse shit.
Who is the Orioles closer?
Come on, fucking Teix, please, HIT!
[209] How do you Girardi-proof the roster? Logan and Robertson have a role on this team, but they are never better than a starter who is rolling along. Going to the bullpen is like roulette...if you keep firing, you'll find the bullet. Girardi doesn't seem to grasp the concept.
ball isn't carrying to cf/lf tonight
I think the real reason is that the Yanks had too much Cognac and cigars with the Prez last night.
That was a very outside pitch Alex tried to hook.
[214] Does the team *really* need two lefties?
[214] I guess you would have to do something radical like go with a smaller BP so Girardi has fewer options and thus less temptation. Get rid of all lefties so that he can't be tempted to make BP moves based on situation.
this game has inspired the first f-bombs of the season.
robertson couldn't finish off anybody.
[212] no need to name one so far.
Ok, Jorgie, it's on you!
[218] If it wasn't Logan, it would have been Marte. Girardi will find a way to overmanage.
Motherfucker.
Btw, speaking of being pissed, what's the deal with NJ?
[223] I don't think so. I think if he only has one lefty he holds off the bullpen turnstile for an inning.
[225] Shocking turn of events there.
[219] If you need to be that drastic, it illustrates the point. The better option would be to address the person making the decisions, instead of trying to limit what he can decide.
[225] Who knows. Supposedly he has a stiff back...worse than expected, did not return tonight as expected. I suspect that even if he could play, Girardi is sitting him because he is not hitting, just getting on base.
Another reason why teams should stop carrying that last useless pitcher and go with another offensive player on the bench.
rare E6 there. goddamn
[227] What is it, he has a back ache?
Fucking hell, Derek!
Is NJ available to pinch hit?
[230] I stand corrected. 1B.
Or rather, pinch walk?
[229] I'm going to miss Hideki Matsui. I know it.
[231] He's had a backache that in typical Nick Johnson fashion, has somehow lasted about three days too long.
[228] But I don't think that it's that drastic. I was making, in my own oblique way, a more general critique of contemporary roster construction. Teams carry 12 or 13 pitchers, which only tempts managers to play bullpen roulette. In fact, they become somewhat justified because they need to "keep the arms in the BP fresh."
[232] I stand re-corrected
Trembley is living large: he has gotten to use two PRs, and he may even get to unleash his closer!
[238] I hope the closer comes out in a mask to preserve his identity.
haha
What the hell was Kay talking about?
Start the circus music
is their closer already in the game?
WTF! goddammit to holy shit!
Watching Posada is sad...he simply can not catch anymore.
Why not?
Why should we want to win this game?
We've won twelve already.
What's the hurry to get to thirteen?
And I do kind of feel sorry for Baltimore, sitting on three.
They deserve to win sometimes too.
WHO?
[244] No, he really can't.
[242] http://www.partyoutfitters.com/itempics/misc/BoppCircus.mp3
Dear Baltimore,
We hope this run finds you well. We just thought you might be able to use it.
With love,
Derek and Jorgie
[248]
brilliant
This feels like the slow motion montage from the end of Bonnie and Clyde
Did they score that an E5?
[251]
I'm thinking more "Terrance and Phillip" from South Park
It really looks like the Yankees weren't prepared to play this game. Maybe they did a little too much celebrating last year and not enough preparing to play a 3-16 team. This game is an embarassment.
This game has been pathetic. Been following it on my phone, and been way too grumpy about it.
How does Girardi possibly explain using the loogy with no men on in the 6th, but not with two men on in the 8th?
Ha-ha...we might just deny their closer his save yet!
All right.
Girardi needs to call a team meeting and get these clowns back on track.
Games like this are not ok.
Jorgie can't get picked off and then go and throw the ball away.
I know he always does these things and we win with him anyway but still.
What kind of shit is this?
[248] I really so love that.
It's better to be 12-7 then where they usually stand after 19 games, but this team had a blazing start in them and they just took the foot off the gas. Down to 2 guys hitting. Down to one guy pitching well in the bullpen.
Simon's shit breaks late as hell. GO SWISH!
Nice hit, Swisher.
Ok, NJ, draw your walk, PLEASE.
[233] That pinch walk is needed now
c'mon Baby Ruth!
How do you take that?
Wow.
That 1-1 was a break.
That was a strike.
So, if NJ is well enough to PH...
[265] 'Cause he's looking to walk.
[267] Is he well enough to swing?
[267] Don't even go there.
It'll only get us all the more riled up.
Thank you, NIck.
He's the Walkin' Man!
Hey ,,,, lets PR for Johnson :-)
Ok, Derek. You can do this.
Look to turn on the inside fastball.
He'll challenge you there.
Turn on it like you did on that homerun you hit last week.
[273]
Argh .... I was KIDDING!!!!!
[270] Save for it when Gardner comes up (unless DJ grounds into his DP).
The Lineup on MSG is doing the best NY left fielder of all time tonight. Any guesses?
Why on earth would the Yankees pinch hit with Cervelli?
That was an awful AB by Jeter.
If he'd just turned on that first pitch like I asked him to...
[277] Bob Meusel?
AAAAAAAAAH.
Dammit, Gritty, SWING at fat pitches.
Guess this is what happens when you bat someone like Gardner in the #2 slot.
I see no one is going to swing at anything now.
HA HAH AH AH H AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH !!!!
Hmmm ... Gritner has a unique strategy this game ... 'Hit 'em where they're at!"
Run Gardner?
This infield dirt is pathetic ....
PLEASE
Good morning Yankees.
Alex ... it *always* comes down to Alex, doesn't it?
Oh, this is going to be a kick in the balls if A-Rod doesn't tie it here
Thanks for giving them that insurance run last inning, Derek and Jorgie.
(And PLEASE, don't give me the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. I'm not in the mood.)
suicide squeeze!!!
[286] Ha ha ha ha ha ah a ahhdeh heheh
Greetings Banterites...
[291] I was going to post the same thing!
FUCK.
dammit, I thought that was going through off the bat ...
What an embarrassment.
Ok.
Shoot me now.
We just gave away a baseball game.
That's the sort of thing championship teams are not supposed to do.
Damn it...probably a game no one deserved to win. The Yankees should be extremely ashamed by their performance tonight.
Mistakes in the bottom of the 8th... Maybe a run saved if Winn wasn't in RF... the possibilities are endless.
[301] really, they've played like shit since the Hughes near no hitter.
[302] Maybe a couple runs saved if we didn't have to MAKE A MOVE in the sixth
Mattpat... was I right?
[301] Very well said. No one deserved to win this game. The fielding alone was a disgrace to the game.
[277] I would agree Muesel or maybe Ricky Henderson. (anything to think about but this game is better).
I usually feel better about them losing if they stage a rally in the 9th like tonight, but eh, not so much.
The first win at home for the O's is against the World Champion New York Yankees Baseball Team.
I am usually a great apologist for him, but Jeter was very, very un-karma-like tonight.
I'm not sure if I hate it more when Girardi makes a bad bullpen move because he over analyzed that damn binder, or for no apparent reason like tonight
The Yankees need a Baltimore Pit Beef, and then a good night's sleep. Tomorrow will be better.
[311] I agree, sort of. Pulling Hughes at 109 pitches made sense more or less (I would have kept him in, but then I would push all starters to 120 pitches more frequently). Going to a LHP sortakinda made sense given that there was a LH batter up.
But let's assume that Logan is always the wrong move. Whom would you have called on in the sixth?
[313] Why did pullign Hughes make sense? Do you really think 114 pitches would have made much of a difference than the 109 he did throw?
[313] I'd really like to think baseball managers have gotten beyond the point where any man with a pulse and a left hand is a good idea against a lefty, so I don't think it made sense at all.
I also think that part of his job is to realize that the bullpen hasn't been particularly good at all, so its a better idea not to pull a guy at 109 pitches in the middle of the sixth and ask the bullpen to get the seven outs before Rivera.
But if he's hellbent on making a move, as he often is, I think Aceves is probably the lesser of all evils.
I think part of the problem is that Girardi has a little too much Tony La Russa in him. He wants to be given credit for the wins, so he keeps making MOVEZ because some of them have to work out, and then he'll have "pushed all the right buttons"
[314] I made it clear that *I* would have left Hughes in. But let's deal in reality: few (no?) managers will leave their young starter, who is on an innings limit in the game, for more than 110 pitches. Could Hughes have gotten the last out in five pitches? Maybe---he was averaging almost exactly 5 P/batter.
In any case, as a thought exercise, assuming that Hughes was going to be pulled anyway (there was general surprise on the game thread that Hughes was still in the game), who is the proper choice?
[317] Aceves...he is the Yankees second best reliever (at least third for those hardcore Joba believers). There was no reason to bother with Logan and Robertson.
[317] Also known as the "let's not treat out starters like Yu Darvish, who as thrown over 145 pitches at least a dozen times int he last two years..."
[317] And if I wasn't in a bad enough mood already, you just reminded me that we still have the innings limit circus to look forward to this year
[318] Sure there was--it helped ensure we'd lose to a 3-16 team despite that team's best efforts to improve to 3-17.
Holy hell. How did this happen? We lost to the worst team in baseball? And gave them their first home win?
I was Scranton tonight. Watching baseball in the snow. Jason Hirsch took a no-hitter into the 8th. Corky Miller ended it with a homer, but the SWB Yanks still won.
And I think I'm frozen solid.
[320] As I predicted earlier this season, there will be no circus, because his innings will be easy to manage as the designated #5 starter.
[319], etc. FWIW: James Shields is leading the league at 110 P/GS. Only 14 pitchers have thrown as many as 114 pitches in a game this season.
Leaving Hughes in after he got the first two outs would have been quite unusual in today's climate. That's why I say, GO NOLAN RYAN!
[320] I have no faith in this organization to not turn it into a circus. Hell, last year when they tried to just skip Joba's starts, they thought it would be prudent to also refuse to tell him when he was starting again. It had to be a SECRET.
They'll screw this up. And pat themselves on the back while doing it.
[324] You of course miss two critical differences:
1. Joba was on a much more restricted limit from the start (something like 25 innings, or 3 or 4 starts).
2. Joba was the #4 starter so it was harder to schedule his skipped starts. The team has already skipped Hughes this season.
[325] You're also assuming we make it to August and September with the whole rotation healthy and Javy Vazquez better than Phil Hughes.
[326] Nope, not at all. It doesn't matter if Javy is better or worse, so long as he takes the ball every five days. And it doesn't matter if there are injuries o the staff or not: that won't result in any more starts for Hughes since he is already in the rotation. The injured player will be replaced by Lucky or some other bottom feeder.
At most Hughes can get 28 starts over the rest of the season, or 31 total---the same number that Joba made last year with a lower innings limit.
31 maximum starts + 170-175 INN limit = no problem.
That's an average of less than six innings a start. Are they going to have to start pulling him from starts early at some point?
[328] Not really, for indeed that is about what he has averaged so far this season. He has now made three starts and thrown 18 INN, or exactly 6 INN/GS. To fit 175 INN in 31 starts means 5.2 INN/GS, or pulling him an inning "early" once every three games. Or skipping one start, which will probably happen at the ASB anyway.
Really, no problem, no circus. That extra 25 INN or so makes all the difference.
OK, I'm off to bed. I'll let you work out the math.