The Yankees have won six games and already taken the weekend series against the Blue Jays. Funny to think that they could start the week having lost ground on Boston and Cleveland should those two teams win today and the Yanks lose. Our old friend Ted Lilly will square off against Jaret Wright this afternoon in Toronto. Wright tends to get hurt early, but the Yankees desperately need him to make like Shawn Chacon and give them some length. More to the point, they need the offense to put up at least a half-a-dozen runs, which is possible, though no lock against Lilly, who can be nasty when he’s on. Jorge Posada is showing some signs of life, and Robinson Cano has been hot. Let’s see who can step up today. Got to drive ’em in when they are on, boys. Let’s see youse guys get them ducks off the pond.
One more pin Rodney. Just win it. Any which way you can.
1. With all this talk about the final three games and mathematical poissibilities, it prompted me to look at the upcoming schedules and I noticed something that no one has mentioned yet: THERE IS NO CHANCE FOR A ONE GAME PLAYOFF BETWEEN THE RED SOX AND YANKS AFTER THE LAST DAY OF THIS SEASON!!!
In the next 15 days, the Red Sox have 14 games scheduled to be played.
In the next 15 days, the Yanks have 15 games scheduled to be played.
How is that? Because an earlier Red Sox-White Sox was posptponed with a makeup game not scheduled. And the one date that the Red Sox are off in the next 2 weeks, Chicago has a game.
Therefore, it is very possible that the season could end with either the Yanks or Sox up by only .5 game in the standing and, depending on the team in first place, the Red Sox would have to make up that game against Chicago on the day after the season ends.
Given the fact that the White Sox and Indians could be coming down to the wire on the final weekend of this season, this poses VERY interesting scanrios for all teams involved.
2. unpopster,
I believe the White Sox game was already made up...that's why the Sox are in the middle of a 30 game in a row stretch...because they had to make up the game on their one day off, in order to avoid precisely what you're talking about.
3. Yeah, the extra game the Yanks play is a rain out make-up, and that negates the 1/2 game. Wouldn't it be amazing for baseball (though not our health or sanity) for the season to come down to Yanks-Sox for first place the last weekend? Granted, at Fenway, we would stand little chance, but that would be hyped out of control...
4. If we enter Fenway tied or one game ahead, I like our chances. One game behind or more, not so much.
A lot of people have mentioned being scared of Ortiz, but the guy that scares me the most if it comes down to one game is Wakefield. The weird thing is that he is 1-3 against the Yankees this year, but I still fear that knuckleball more than Papi, Manny, the bloody sock, or Johnny from Burger King.
But right now, I'm not worried about the Sox. I'm actually worried about 8 games against a team we haven't seen since June, with nothing to lose...but again, if we show the spirit we've shown the last seven days, we're in good shape.
5. This note in the Daily News is troubling:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/347495p-296592c.html
CAN'T GET LOOSE IN A FLASH: Tom Gordon said earning his first save of the season yesterday felt good, but the righthander's "cranky" shoulder makes his day-to-day status for the rest of the year a little murky.
Gordon said he's been suffering from sporadic stiffness in his shoulder that makes him less effective on the mound and he doesn't want to take a chance and pitch on a day in which he's not at his best.
"I want to be able to help the team but I have to use common sense, too," Gordon said.
The problem, Gordon said, is that there are some days when he'll wake up and feel like his shoulder is "heavy." On those days, it can take him 35-40 tosses to get loose during pregame throwing, and "if it takes me that long then, it will take me 35-40 pitches later (during the game)," he said. "That's not good."
Yesterday, Gordon said he felt good and needed just 12 pitches to get ready. Since Torre has not hesitated to bring Gordon into games in the middle of an inning, it's vital that he be able to warm up quickly. "Look, I want to be out there pitching every day," Gordon said. "But I don't want to hurt the team, either. So I just have to monitor it."
6. Let's see, we made up, what, two games on the Bosox in a week? At that rate, we should be leading them by a couple of games by the last series. ;-)
7. Warning track power.
8. What did we get for Lilly? My memory betrays me.
9. Holy shit!
10. Lilly looks like Sandy Koufax out there . . .
11. I guess sweeping the road is too much to ask for. Maybe Boston & Cleveland will both lose too.
12. That was a strike, ahh, the home cookin, come on Ump.
13. That's two blown calls for Wright, 0 for Lilly!
14. Lets Hop It's Lima Time in Cleveland!
Bubba, Bubba, where for art thou Bubba!
God Damn you Joe!
15. Weaver
16. Better get Leiter up, we're gonna need him.
17. Just when I thought Wright was going to forego his customary terrible first inning...
18. Actually, Wright's OPSA for his first 15 pitches is only .740.
19. As to that Gordon article, a question.
Is it so impossible to just warm the guy up in advance? I mean, if there's a close game going into the eigth, just get the guy up before whoever's on the mound gets into trouble.
I don't really understand bullpen management as far as the science of warming up pitchers, so can someone explain to me why giving the guy a little extra time to get loose can be an insurmountable problem?
I mean, doesn't it require nothing more than the barest modicum of foresight?
20. Cleveland up 2-0.
Not to be a downer, but I really believe we have to put the WC out of the realm of possibility. We are going to need to overcome Boston to get in.
Does anyone remember a better run than the one Cleveland is on right now. Well, better than us making up 8 in 1978?
21. Cleveland winning already
22. I'm not concerned about the Wild Card. Just keep winning.
23. weeping,
"I mean, doesn't it require nothing more than the barest modicum of foresight?"
No, no it doesn't. This is Joe we are talking about afterall.
24. Ouch. Lilly -> Weaver -> Brown.
25. Relievers complain about having to warm up and then not getting in the game. It takes something out of their arms.
26. Well, if Cleveland keeps this up they won't be wild card winners, they'll pass the Pale hose and take the division. Which, if they take 4 0f 6 or 5 of 6 from the Sox, and we keep winning, means we might also pass the White Sox for the wc.
27. Bonderman > Lilly
28. Rich.
Neither am I, but better to get in one way, than no way at all. Especially given the odds of winning the WS from the WC. Who was the last team to win the WS that didn't?
The 2000 Yankees.
29. Mat got lucky. Shitty 3-0 swing.
30. Arizona, iirc.
31. Matsui breaks up the no hitter
32. Rich, yeah, I've heard that. I can't for the life of me understand it, though. How does warming up and subsequently NOT pitching induce more strain than warming up and actually PITCHING?
And if this really is the case, ok, so use the guy. Make a rule. One run game, get him up and use him.
33. wfb,
I don't know that it's more strain, but apparently it's enough of a strain to have an effect.
34. Worst baserunner EVER!
35. That was lame, but I still think Bubba is worse.
36. FUCKING POSADA
Every time you think he's turning a corner he does something stupid
37. Actually, I think Posada was safe. Umpire blew the call.
38. I don't think there was a tag, the glove was to the outfield side of his leg. Still, Jorge needs to stay closer to the bag.
39. Posada's contract contains a vesting option for 2007 that can be triggered next season. The Yankees can't let that happen.
40. Ten bucks says he drops the ball on a play at home within the next two games. These things come in bunches with him.
41. Come on, Ruben! That was catchable.
42. weeping,
Further, we were having this debate earlier in the week. I was arguing that Rivera should work more than 1 inning far more often than he does, when neccessary.
I used Gossage as an example of someone who would laugh at these closers who whine about having to work more than one.
I was lambasted with the argument that guys like Goose worked fewer games and threw equal or more innings per year. This meant they could not be used as often, I was told. I also contended that "stats" and save numbers have as much to do with it as anything, and I still say that.
I stick to my guns and I still believe that if a manger would have the guts to go back to the way it was, and should be, we wouldn't have to worry near as much as we do concerning middle relief.
Below are Gossgae's and Rivera's stats. No great disparity in games pitched, while Rich worked more innings, generally. I am unable to locate any evidence in these numbers to back up my opponents argument.
It's simply a function of stats and bullshit medicine that has put us in the sad sad state of affairs converning closing games in modern baseball.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riverma01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gossari01.shtml
43. If Cano did that he would be crucified.
44. Why isn't Leiter warming!
45. Bubba, Bubba, where for art thou Bubba.
46. Stormer,
You can't change Rivera's workload in the middle (let alone the end) of a season. He is also 36, not 28 or even 32. How much is left in his arm anyway?
47. what did cano not do that would have gotten him crucified?
48. Wright has struggled early before, and then settled in and pitched well. I'm not giving up on him yet.
I must say, though...everyone seems a bit flat today. I suppose it's only natural, but there's no room for that at this time of year.
49. Kay kills Cano for Jeter's omissions.
50. Man, their heads are not in the game today.
51. I hate how Kay and Singleton tap dance around criticizing Torre for playing Sierra in the of. Just grow a pair of fucking balls and say it.
52. No way I let Wells beat me. What an ass Wright is.
53. and theres the passed ball. I will ammend my statement. The play at the plate will be today
54. Put Bubba in.
55. We can't have this.
Get Wright out of there posthaste.
56. That is bullshit.
He is like Rollins in Philidelphia, Candolanatto is right on top of the plate. Grow some balls Ump, and call him off, If he stands in front of the plate and gets hit, you going to give him the base too? Wright owns that area, not the hitter. Christ!
God I wish baseball would address these issues. Some hitters literally rub out the line so they don't get busted, and the Ump's allow it.
LEITER!!!! At least get him up.
Joe you stupid fuck!
57. Now this is the Jaret Wright I remember. Unfortunately for us.
58. This one's getting ugly... We better start hitting Lilly the second time around...
59. Ruben Sierra's bat is fucking 40, Singleton.
60. Jesus, Sterling!
"No one warming up in the Yankee bullpen, you don't want to use your bullpen this early in the game."
That makes no goddamned sense at all. At this rate, there won't be any bloody game.
61. I put Wright in the pen when Moose comes back.
62. Rich.
I am just saying that it should change generally. That there is no evidence to prove doing it this way is better for pitchers' arms. Save numbers are more important than wins I guess.
63. Cano's the only one who's on his game today.
64. thank God
65. Sterling is old. He just can't remember Leiter's name.
66. Kevin Brown Jr.?
Wright aint jack without Mazzone!
67. Has Ruben -- I do like Ruben, not just bashing -- done something offensively this year that warrants starting him in right? Am I missing something, no, seriously am I?
68. Stormer,
Similar to a four man rotation?
69. Cano's on fire these days.
70. Check out Sierra's Pre and Post AS break splits (stark):
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=3841&type=batting&year=2005
CANO!
71. OK, here we go...
72. Jeter's avg vs. Lilly: .077
73. Lead the way, Alex.
74. Rich,
Yes! So lets get this right then, closers and starters salary's increase exponentially, and their workload goes down, and rest goes up.
Randy is a perfect example, he says he wants to pitch on less rest, and the team wont let him, based on what, what? Can someone please find me evidence that there is something to back this up?
Pitchers pitch less.
Batters look like scared deer, and refuse to collide at Home, it's really starting to look like field hockey in MLB.
Not that it would have helped, but even yesterday, Matsui didn't even contemplate plowing into home. It's disturbing. Arod did it against Tek last year, and that is the only collision I can recall.
Pussy here, pussy there, pussies everywhere.
75. . . . And falling . . .
76. christ on a cracker
77. That's what I'm talking about.
78. A-ROD!!!!
He was overdue for that.
79. Stormer,
Specialization has infected sports. I don't know why.
80. If Wright (or Leiter) can hold them, the Yankees will win.
81. okay, we're back in it
82. Rich,
Further, this would have been the perfect year to move to a 4 man. Why didn't we, books and numbers, and overpaid doctors with non-efficacious research. I just don't believe there is any real evidence that can be verified, outside of specific players who may need more or less rest, to back up this change in baseball.
83. Rich,
You're so right. Look at Troy Brown in NE last year. You would have thought he was Jesus Christ for playing defensive back and wide reciever. No sense, we expect so little.
84. Stormer,
The theory is that teams have so much invested in pitchers that they are afraid to overwork them and cause injury. You don't want your closer or #1 starter on the DL, and you don't want to pay big bucks to someone on the DL, or have to pay $$$ to someone retired due to injury. Kevin Brown is exhibit 1.
I'm not sure that the theory is correct. Mazzone does well with guys throwing between starts. But the theory is probably more bean-counter driven than pitching coach/manager driven.
85. Wright is cursed.
86. Maybe this will light a fire under them.
87. rbj,
Brown has a violent delivery. He would get injured pitching once every 10 days.
88. Leiter up.
89. Good grief. Not again.
90. Rich, yeah. I was just using him as an example of $15 million being spent for someone to sit on the beach.
Hopefully Leiter will pitch better today, and Wright can come back, pitching well.
91. What happened to Wright?
92. Hit by a broken bat.
93. Hinske's bat broke and clipped Wright on the right arm. They let throw some warm ups but his control was off and Torre didn't like what he saw and/or heard.
They were looking a little flat up till now. I'd like to see a Friday redux ala the Big Exit.
94. rbj,
That is what I'm saying.
Further, if not paying guys who are injured is of primary concern, as you say, then you don't sign Kevin Brown to begin with. We could have had Lieber and Vasquez and Loaiza for the money we pay to one guy! Then we would at least have some trade bait. Exhibit 2!
Further, he we go with Wright, he's fine, but leave him in, no, pussy here, pussy there, pussy everywhere.
95. I wouldn't stand to close to the guy during a thunder storm.
96. Bob Gibson is laughing somewhere.
97. Runs...
98. Am I the only one who seems to believe Boston plays all their games at home? Is it an optical illusion?
99. That's because they only win home games.
100. There ya go Joe, push you face right down in that notebook!
101. Come on Sheff!
102. Not a strike.
103. Irabu.
104. Oakland-Sox 2-0, top of the first, 1st and 3rd, nobody out...
105. Now ditto, but 3-0.
106. I wouldn't call Wright a pussy for leaving the game, I don't know how bad he's hurting and what that could do to his mechanics.
We didn't sign Brown, just traded for him to get rid of Weaver. Just don't use big buck, long term contracts for pitchers.
107. Right back to the Home Run mentality.
108. Not just Weaver, Brazoban. Dumb move.
109. rbj,
I know, but the Dodgers weren't the only team interested in Weaver. Cashman had the cash, so he spent it.
110. It wasn't up to Wright. He wanted to stay in. Torre pulled him, after watching a couple of test throws.
111. And Navarro, who is finally hitting his stride in LA! Worst trade in 10 years.
112. Andy Phillips has stepped in for Giambi.
113. randym,
I saw that. Torre is babying his guys, well he always has. Maybe it would have snapped Wright's mechanics back into shape, he couldn't have got much worse. Now Giambi is out, and he puts Phillips in instead of Tino?
114. Navarro went in the Johnson deal.
115. I have no problem putting Phillip in, but I'm concerned about Giambi.
116. I just got out of the shower. Why is Andy Phillips out three hitter?
117. Why Phillips?
118. Torre has him moments and I really do hate ragging him, I do.
But Cashman absolutely must go, there cannot be any doubt about that. The Brown trade should be enough to justify his ouster.
Anyone else hear what Reggie said about George, that he is "losing it mentally." That could help explain his conspicuous absence. That would be very sad.
119. Yay Al. He seems to be working somewhat economically too
120. Cashman is the GM in name only. Emslie and Connors have more power than he does, yet the man who built the foundation for the four rings, Stick, has no power.
121. Rich,
I remember, at the time I thought there had to be a way to get it done without giving up Navarro. A catcher, grr, not like there are truckloads of them out there. Maybe some relievers, Phillips? I still say we could have kept him.
122. Jaret Wright probably should be babied. He seems to be one of those fragile types.
His control wasn't good before he got nailed by that bat, and it was even worse afterwards. Leiter's pitching better than Wright was, so maybe this is a blessing in disguise.
That is curious, that Giambi's out and Phillips, not Tino, is in. What gives? Is Giambi injured? If he put Tino in last night, why not today?
123. Why was the camera on an old woman wearing a lamp shade. We should be seeing a young woman wearing almost nothing.
124. Stormer,
I didn't want RJ unless it was for other old players, like Gordon.
125. He probably picked Phillips because Lily is a lefty. Although I'm not convinced Andy can hit anyone on the ML level.
126. Rich,
"Cashman is the GM in name only. Emslie and Connors have more power than he does, yet the man who built the foundation for the four rings, Stick, has no power."
I hope not, but I think this situation lends creedence to what Reggie is saying, the inmates are running the asylum because George isn't right these days. Shouldn't Levine step in and put an end to this, put everyone in their place.
127. Phillips can hit lefties, at least their fastballs.
128. Back spasms, crap.
129. Keep swinging for the fences guys, go right ahead, Boston losing, I guess you don't want to pick up a game.
130. Yup, George didn't look very sentient at the press conference to announce the new stadium.
131. But Lily throws a curveball, doesnt he?
132. #123 Rich.
Absolutely. And can the hitters do anything today? It's only two runs.
133. That's Lilly's best pitch. I have little confidence in Tino's bat speed right now. They won't win or lose this game because of Phillips.
134. Making Lilly look like Cy Young!
135. This is where I disagree. If Phillips was in like, the 8 spot, it wouldn't matter. But jamming him in a spot right in the heart of the order isn't going to help anything
136. The Yankees are down to this point because Jeter's throw on the potential DP was high and Ruben can't field for shit.
137. Matt,
It will help something, the Jay's.
138. Hey, I'm defending Torre, so I must be wrong. ;-)
139. Rich,
I agree. I hate to bash Joe, but he says it's the "playoffs" and then manages like it's mid-April.
140. I will say it again. I would not let Wells beat me today.
141. I can recall Sterling saying in '89 that the Barfield for Leiter trade was great for the Yankees. How short sighted.
142. Red Sox down 7-0. Pound them A's.
143. oh, for christ sakes, Cleveland is win ning 8-0
144. Rich,
Joe says, I will not give in to Wells, I can't wait to pitch to Ortiz with a base open and two outs.
145. boston getting killed and this team cant be bothered. Figures
146. I would bean Ortiz every time he comes up until he retires.
147. The Sox can come back. The question is, can we?
148. Every time Boston loses we lay down like my ex-girlfriend.
149. Holy crap. 7-0 at Fenway.
C'mon, Yanks. This is golden opportunity.
And damn, I wish he'd put Tino in.
150. Rich: Amen. You think Bob Gibson would let Fat Papi sit on top of the plate like that wearing body armor?
151. Fucking score, dammit.
152. all said, not too bad. Only one run
153. Face it, the 6 game streak is wonderful, but we could have easily lost the last two. This game is important and they are pressing. We are the get-away-day-chumps. Over and over.
154. It's a lost art, YFiC.
155. Hey, it's three runs...we can make that back in one swing...provided someone gets their butt on base. Let's go Yanks...
156. Yankee fan in Chicago.
I know, and the problem is made worse by the Umps allowing guys to stand right on top of the plate. You toss Randy for arguing, then you let Candy sit right on top of the plate, grow some balls.
157. Jeez.
158. Jeter doesn't like base hits anymore?
159. Wells certainly is finding a myriad of ways to fuck the yanks today (and all series).
160. You're kidding me right Arod?
161. Not a strike.
162. Well at least Phillips saw more than 3 pitches.
163. A top defensive SS gets to that.
164. perhaps a 2004 gold glove suggests that jeter is such a player.
165. Jeter's UZR in 2004 was 0. His UZR this year is -15. He has very little range up the middle.
166. Oakland better score some more runs, it's way too early in the game.
167. i can't argue stats i don't have in front of me, but i'd say few ss in the league make that play, a-rod sadly being one of them.
168. Leiter's doing a decent job
169. with a big lead, they should start the "bean papi" program today.
170. Marc, the Red Sox offense is deda in the water. That A's game is over!
171. um, "dead in the water"
172. btw, Palmeiro once won a GG and he sucks.
173. Stepped away from the game for a bit, and now Giambi is out. Anything to be concerned about?
174. Giambi has back spasms.
175. Holy shit, was that a base hit?
176. Ruben the rally killer.
Bubba!
178. Ruben doesn't have a clue.
179. Might as well play Lawton.
180. At least Ruben's worked the count full.
181. Be careful watch you wish for, Stormer. Words can not describe how bad Bubba can be if given the chance
182. OK, I'll take it.
183. Ruben did his job.
184. But Bubba can catch and Ruben's defense has cost like two runs.
185. There we go. Now lets see if they can capitalize.
186. OK, Womack in to run for Ruben, Bubba to RF. Please.
187. I have more faith in Jorge at the plate than I do in DJ or Sheff.
188. Dammit Jorge, wake the fuck up.
189. Then no one can call you a stat geek Stormer. ;-)
190. Seeing eye single.
191. JORGIE!!!
He is definitely heating up.
192. Did Lilly blow the Ump before the game? He certainly knows what's below the knees.
193. Rich,
hardy har har.
194. Ok, two more
195. The umps are just giving Lilly the calls to fuck up RJ even further.
196. Bernie.
Can you have at least 1 good at bat today, please!
197. Rich, I mean that wasn't even close, it was well below the knee.
198. I love when people call me a stat geek on discussion boards. I sucked at math, but I can read.
199. Just goofin' Stormer.
200. Bernie, come on man!
201. Wow, the Ump almost called that one a strike.
Time for Jorge to pull the old step aside and let the fastball clean through!
202. Bernie, Jesus!
203. That was productive.
204. Come on Robbie!
205. fuck
206. What a joke.
207. yeah that sucked...
But ummm...I was just flipping channels - has anyone else noticed that Wade Boggs is now one of the endorsers of the medical HAIR RESTORATION institute? Wow...DUDE, you're a HOFer
208. Leiter's out, Tanyon's in.
209. Yea Joe, pull the guy who is effective for the guy who isn't. Brilliant!
210. Jvar,
He has done that for a while. He is the guy who tried to offer the Ray's his endorsement to go into the Hall of fame as a Ray, for cash. He's a punk.
How many guys will Tanyon plunk, 1, 2?
211. A's up by 9 and we cannot even scrape up 5 runs, grr.
212. oh shit!!! I just got that feeling again...The feeling that we're coming back to win this shit!!! C'mon New York City...Believe baby...Believe!
213. This is it baby!!! Here we go!!!! Mark my fucking words!!!!
214. Come on Minnesota!
215. At least Oakland added on. 12-0 0ver Sahx
216. My girlfriend, the curse, just let my apt...Every fucking time she watches the game with me we start losing...but the bitch left so here we go baby.....
217. Good see two people so in love. ;-)
218. Hey, at least we have the bottom of the order in the 9th. Maybe we can win.
219. 'bout time. Let's pour it on.
220. ONE MORE!
221. THERE'S the Jeter I was hoping for. Man, he tagged that one - just a little more mustard on it than in inning #1. Good for you!
222. what did i say motherfuckers!!!!!! the BITCH LEFT!!!! HERE WE GO YANKEES HeRE we GO!!!!
223. JETE! Woo-hoo!
I saw that one coming. He's been hitting the ball hard today, just not quite hard enough. Until now. :)
224. A little bit of progress, a little. Way to go Jete.
225. damn
226. come on Tino!
227. AROD is playing like Bellhorn of late...
228. The difference in the game to this point is RF defense. Thanks Torre.
229. FUCCCCCCCCCK
230. Didn't A-Rod hit a HR today?
231. Rich, you could argue that the difference in the game was the god damned passed ball that moved runners to second and third
232. If Sheff gets on, Mat is going deep.
233. OK, Matt, I just think Ruben has no business playing RF.
234. Good job, Sheff. Now it's up to Godzilla.
235. COME ON, HIDEKI
236. I'd be happy with a base hit at this point.
237. Can Woe steal a base? He seems hesitant to steal when he pinch runs.
238. Matsui doesn't do something here, we dont have a good shot in the ninth
239. I don't know if Id risk it with the 2nd base Ump. Jete was clearly late with that tag last inning.
240. Fuck
241. Matt,
You crazy? We have the heart of the order in the 9th!
242. SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
243. Damn, I don't want to lose by a run.
244. Maybe Joe should move Arod to 8th, then someone would be on base for him.
245. no one on the bench to hit for Sierra
246. Bottom gets hot, top goes cold.
Top is hot, bottom is cold.
It's lie a gay bathhouse out there.
Shheeeeh.
247. Holy crap. Is it really 12-1 Oakland in Fenway???
248. Is that why they are playing Bette Midler music?
249. Bernie baby!
250. Bernie!
251. Embree, ugh.
252. Nice catch Bernie!
And apperntly Torre's taking advice, and having Flash warm up early.
253. C'mon, Yanks! Boston's humiliation will be much more enjoyable if you win today.
254. Embree scares me - talk about throwing gasoline on a fire. The Yanks can't afford Embree's usual couple of runs let up in this game!
255. I'm a little nervous about Embree as well. He's doing okay so far. Cross your fingers...
256. damnit
257. Why did he take out Tanyon again? Oh yeah, because Embree is LH, ability means shit to Torre.
258. Dammit. Shoulda left Tanyon in.
259. Torre's obsession with handedness cost us another game. Fire him, please.
260. THere's one of the runs I knew Embree would let up. Here comes the other.
261. Way to go Joe!
262. I'm sorry Torre defenders, but Torre is an idiot.
263. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTT
264. Guys,
I'm telling you. Pull for Minnesota. Pull for Cleveland. White Sox collapse is the only way they are getting in.Red Sox with 7 at home to end the season, no chance, not with Torre on the bench, no fucking way.
265. As soon as Mike Scioscia pissed away the Angels shot last year, every manager should have IMMEDIATELY ditched this OHMYGODWENEEDALEFTYTOGETALEFTYOUT HORSESHIT
266. vs. L: .301 .343 .516 .859
But hey, Torre won four rings. He's a fuckin' genius.
267. If this game goes down as a L...wow is it a disheartening loss, at least to me
269. And to make matters worse, he leaves him in! He's there to get the lefty, he didn't, he should have pulled him then, but noooooooooooooooo.
270. As I have said before, I would sign for not making the playoffs if I can be assured that Torre's overrated ass would be fired.
271. Keep playing Sierra Torre.
272. If it was 10-2 or something, well, come back to fight another day. But this game was winnable, and now it is not, that is what is upsetting. We won 6 yes, but when you give one away, well, that is not goos, not good at all.
273. God Almighty
274. Thanks, Jorge, for some hope.
275. Torre has blown about 10 games this season with his mindless use of the pen.
276. If that's what you are going to do, why wait? Was Torre sleeping again?
277. Finally a smart move. Get the keystone cop off the bases.
279. Your chances of getting resigned just went down further with that pop up Bernie.
280. Please fire Torre today, George. Remember who you were.
281. Torre blew another one.
282. Man, I knew that bringing in Embree would cost them the game. What a stupid managerial decision!
283. Damn it.. If Joe hadn't given that run away we would be tied..
284. Dammit. If they'd kept it to one run, the game would be tied now.
285. Torre is an idiot. I can't understand why some people won't admit that.
286. Ok Jete, this is what is supoosed to justify your salary, Mr. intangible, lets get going here, no more .230 WRISP, come the fuck on!
287. Joe is an idiot..
288. Fucking left Embree in or this game is likely tied right now! Ok bringing Embree in can be justified, but leaving him in following the lefty cannot!
289. That loss should be pinned on Embree, not Wright.
Nothing worse than a called third strike to end a game.
290. Jeter has to be double digits in last out this year
291. sigh...not the first time thats happened this season.
292. Jeter should be fined. I dont care about the homer. A called third strike to end a game?
293. THe loss is on Torre.
294. It was a bad call. It was a ball, not a strike.
295. Looking Jete, Looking! That is WORSE than making the last out at third base, that was right down the moddle!
296. Is anyone getting this Page wider than the screen right now?
297. Michael Kay just said that this was the 8th loss in which Jeter made the final out with RISP. Nice, Jetes. Way to go.
298. Doesn't matter how good your inside-out swing is. When you're on top of the plate like Jetes, there is nothing you can do when its up and inside.
They've been banging Jeter insdie for years. Maybe it's time to step back a few inches.
299. randym
that ball was way to fucking close to take.
300. I knew I should have went out to do my laundry once Boston was that far down. The Yankees wont win when the Sox lose, what was I thinking.
301. Jeter has been overrated since his OPS was .990 in 1999. He's a very good player, but not the mythical player that some pretend he is.
302. Yes, it's because of post 263. The same thing happens if you post a long URL. There's no place to break it, so the text doesn't wrap.
It would be considerate not to type words that long, and to use MakeAShorterLink.com or TinyURL.com, to avoid stretching the screen that way and making everybody scroll.
303. I love Jeter, but we just don't have it this year. We just don't have it. We get pitching the last two months and we still lose, who are we to blame now?
Backing in with a White Sox meltdown is absolutely the only way this team gets in, it's sad, but it's true. You don't win when the team ahead loses, time and time again, you don't make it, simple. Throw in 3 or 4 more Torre losses, it's over.
304. Yet if Kim Jones asks Torre about his moronic use of Embree, Torre will tell his flaks in the media that the question was only asked so that George can get back at him.
What a loathsome human.
305. The Yankees have more than enough to make the playoffs, and they stil will, despite the Torre handicap.
306. Now that we're past 300 posts, you can hide Comments 251-300, and the screen should go back to a reasonable width.
307. Or open up a bit.
This is why we can't make the PS. It's not Jetes fault. This offense just wastes too many opportunities. They have done this all year. There is no killer instinct.
BA with RISP and 2 outs: .227 Worst in the AL.
308. randym,
thanks
309. Torre lost this game by using Sierra in RF and bringing in Embree despite his .301 .343 .516 .859 v leftie.
The offense scored five runs. That's more than enough to win.
310. grrr
311. BA with RISP and 2 outs: .227 Worst in the AL. = Golf in October.
312. Again, why can't Colter Bean get a shot? Can he be worse than Embree?
313. The Yankees are good enough to overcome the .227 split, if they had a manager with a brain.
314. Rich.
Joe wants to get fired!
He said "It's not fun anymore."
315. We can lose 2 more games, max. It aint happenin.
316. With a team ERA of 4.5, I'm not sure how 5 is 'more then enough'.... especially with a 2 man pen and our starter out prematurely. The only choice better then Embree is TanGorMo. Were any of them able? Sturtze is not good coming in with men on.
The truth is Embree sucks. However, excluding TanGorMo, EVERYBODY sucks in our pen.
Torre has been beaten up for overusing these 3 too often, even when ahead by 4.... but no lead is safe with anyone else. Re: a recent 11-10 game.
317. One more reason why I hate him.
318. Was Tanyon pitching well today? Yes. Why take him out given the splits I posted/ Because Torre prefers handedness over ability.
319. There is no excuse to bring in a guy with a .320 BA against lefties, if he was at least getting them out at a 75% clip, you can justify it, but there is no excuse for it. Sturtz was pitching fine, Joe blew it.
320. Blew it by starting Sierra.
Blew it by yanking Leiter.
Blew it by yanking Sturtz.
Blew it by bringing in Embree.
Blew it by not pulling Embree.
Blew it!
321. btw, Don't forget we're beating Torre up for using Sierra in RF too. Equally moronic.
322. I think the Yankees lead the league in LOB, but because they are typically leading (or close) in OBP, this stat may not tell the complete story.
It would be nice if there was a stat (or a couple of stats) that was a percentage of run-scoring opportunies converted. I guy RISP and 2 out RISP is the closest we have.
323. Frank Robinson makes you look like a high school coach Joe, do us a favor and just resign and leave us with our good memories of you at least, before every last fan hates you.
324. One mistake, well its a judgment call, two is unacceptable, but 5 is terminable.
325. Anoyone catching the post game, what is he saying?
326. The Yankees are leading MLB in EQA:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=31183
327. The main thing I'm ticked about is Sierra in right. It would be one thing if he could hit, but he hasn't done shit since coming back. Torre is just an idiot for starting him in the field. And sure enough, it cost us the game. The Embree decision was pretty bad, but you would like to think the guy could get one freaking out without letting the runner score from first. We literally have nobody in the bullpen except for 3 guys who can do that.
328. The good news: taking 5 out of 6 on this road trip isn't bad. Boston took only 4 out of 6 in the same time period, with one series at home.
The bad news: everyone's looking pretty tired. Pretty sloppy game, overall. Wright didn't pitch all that well, then he got hit by that bat. And Jason Giambi's having back problems. (Apparently because Jeter made him jump to make that catch.)
I have a feeling this is going to be all about endurance.
329. Jeremy.
AND WITH 15 FUCKING GAMES LEST, YOU MIGHT THINK USING THOSE THREE GUYS, IF THEY ARE NEEDED WOULD BE A SMART MOVE, NO? JOW STILL THINKS THERE ARE 40-50 GAMES LEFT.
330. The other bad news is that we are running out of game, and finish the season playing 3 games on the road in Boston. If the Yankees can't get the WC, they need to come into Boston in 1st place.
331. The notion, floated by Torre's friends in the media...Bob Klapisch and Joel Sherman foremost...that George orders his YES reporters to "ask him questions questionning his managing decisions," is laughable and easily contradicted by literally hours of videotape. Has Kim Jones ever even had an edge in voice when asking Torre a single question? I suppose the media should scrape their feet and bow deeply before every question. How dare we "make it no fun anymore." How dare we question his ingenious managing moves. After all, isn't Ruben Sierra a great rightfielder, especially on artificial turf and in the afternoon sun? A question Kim Jones should ask: if Ruben Sierra were Andy Phillips, would we ever have to see him on the field again in a Yankees uniform?
332. The answer is that, like Andy Phillips after his 5 strikeout performance, Bubba Crosby is dead in Torre's eyes after his 0-5 a coiuple of nights ago. If you're not one of Joe's guys you get one chance...if that.
333. Johnny,
I have always thought that accusation was ridiculous. Since when does George have a problem asking his managers himself? That's right Bob Klapisch and Joel Sherman, George has always been a pussy, afraid to call his managers out, come on. They are sportswriters after all, never going to be accused of confusing creativity with actual news. It's half baked George Bush politics, trying to get into reporters heads, pushing public perception that they are too hard on Joe, in an attempt to get them to ask inocuous questions, and it's worked. If Joe has even a small hand in it, he better get his ass fired as a result. Any attempt to interfere with reporters' questions is worse, and borderline illegal, in my mind, than what George did to Dave Winfield, as it goes to the integrity --if there was any to begin with-- in the reporting profession. Has the YES team been hard hitting, ever?
334. I say again:
Blew it by starting Sierra.
Blew it by yanking Leiter.
Blew it by yanking Sturtz.
Blew it by bringing in Embree.
Blew it by not pulling Embree.
Blew it!
I just don't think these are damned if you do, damned if you don't decisions. These are not decisions that could go either way, critique rightfully seen as nit picky.
They are blunders, plain and simple. Blame the offense if you like, and I do to a degree, but Joe has got to be smarter.
What the hell was that 3 pitch exchange before he sent Lawton in to run for Jorge, what was that?
335. The Bush analogy is apt. It's what Bob Somerby calls the "courtier press." The media are supplicants to power, worshipping at the alter of Torre's four rings.
To make matters worse, George may well be declining mentally, so for Torre to have his butt boys in the media accuse George of some Machiavellian plot is particularly offensive.
He has had the benefit, since, '96, of managing extremely talented teams financed by one of the highest payrolls in MLB.
You would think that in exchange he would be willing to pay the organization back by helping to developing the next homegrown core, but outside of Cano and Wang, he has been reluctant to show much patience to prospects, since Jeter, and he may only have become the starter because Tony Fernandez injured his elbow during Spring Training of '96.
Can't the media ever acknowledge what a terrible tactical manager Torre is?
This season may be the first during his tenure when the talent differential between the Yankees and the rest of the AL has been diminished (for which the FO deserves blame) to the point where managerial strategy makes a difference in a number of key games.
How does Torre respond to the challenge? By overusing Sierra and Embree, despite their horrendous stats.
336. Right about that, Stormer. Blame the players if you want and in the final analysis it's what they do and don't do that wins and loses games in actual fact. However, that speaks to their performance which we as sabermetrically informed fans realize is an issue of percentages (there is no statistical barometer of clutchness). In other words, a hitter will more than likely fail 70% of the time, regardless of how many runners are on base. The manager's decisions are, at worst, 50/50 and, using his knowledge of both his own team's capabilities and those of the opposition, should be much better than that. To judge players and managers using the same yardstick is to misunderstand what they each have to do. And that's why you need a manager...to work the odds and percentages to your favor. Alan Embree can only do what he can do and has a track record for doing. The same is true of ARod as well as Wayne Franklin. It is Joe Torre's job to acknowledge those differences. Apparently, he is too busy politicking for his job with media types to actually acknowledge facts such as: a) Ruben Sierra can't play the outfield and, in 2005, can't hit a lick, b) Alan Embree is cooked, c) you can't pinch-run Tony Womack if he doesn't attempt to steal at any point, and d) a careful reading of the scouting report on Ted Lilly shows he's not tough on lefties, ergo, the defense you get from Bubba Crosby will not adversely affect your offense. I could go on but you guys know the tune.
337. The same Joe Torre who has always told the fawning press that his relievers should be able to get hitters out regardless of which side they bat from (usually to explain his abuse of Quantrill, Gordon, Mo, please fill in the blank)is inexplicably (I say that because he won't explain it not that it's actually inexplicable)hung up on handedness to the point of robotically bringing in Embree into every doggone situation where a lefthander, regardless of power or quality, comes to the plate (Greg Gross? for chrissake is not David Ortiz). I'd love to hear a YES employee like Kim Jones ask him about that. As likely as hearing Joel Sherman or Bob Klapisch ask.
338. You guys are quickly becoming the most pessimistic group of fans this side of Red Sox Nation.
I'm sorry, but you need to get a grip. I was completely annoyed and disappointed with the choice of Sierra in RF today and the way we played in general, but this game probably has little to do with the remaining 15 games.
We have 15 games remaining for God's sake. One game won't make or break us, yet. Not when we're only a game back in the loss against Cleveland and Boston. We had a chance to get within .5 of the Sox today and coughed it up, but do you think it means that we won't get that chance again?
We have two series at home right now while Boston goes on the road. If we can make up one game during that stretch we'll be in a virtual tie. Who thought we'd be in this position a few months ago when we were 9 back?
Are the Yankees going to win EVERY game for the rest of the year? Has any team ever had that kind of stretch to close a season? 20 straight wins? Don't be overreactioary fans.
We're within one good weekend of taking over 1st. Keep it in perspective.
339. I am still optimistic. Today's game was disappointing, because we came so close to winning, but realistically, if you'd told me we'd win 5 out of 6 on this road trip before it started, I'd have been ecstatic.
Boston has lost 3 out of 7 since we played them. We've made up 2 games on them in a week. There's two weeks left. We can catch them, dammit. Screw the WC.
340. I'm not pessimistic at all, to the contrary, I am near certain that the Yankees will make the playoffs.
But for the strangulating effect of the Torre factor, however, I believe that the Yankees would win the division by 3+ games, and would be a lock to win the WS.
341. Mike,
I am not pessimistic, rather I am realistic. I do not believe that the worst will happen. I do not prefer to stress the negative over good, truly I don't. I love this team, and will be as happy as anyone when we clinch a playoff spot.
The 6 game streak was wonderful, of course. However those 6 games were over and done, win or lose. We were playing a game today and I cannot sit idly by while I see my manger almost try to chuck the game out the window.
Boston was heading for a clear loss at the start of the 8th inning today. I cannot imagine a successful manager, having clearly yanked his prior reliever too soon, sticking with a third rate pitcher following that walk, I just don't see it. A clear chance to pick up a game was right there, and I have to believe most anyone else would have the guy who gives them the best chance to tie the game out there, whether that be Gordon or Rivera, but clearly not Embree. When he issued that walk, that should have been it, I defy you to tell me that's wrong.
He has used Gordon with 5 run leads and used Mo in the 8th down two runs before. In fact, many of us stood mouth agape wondering what he was thinking then, and today, given the opportunity to do it when it actually made sense, he scoffed. Would we have ultimately won the game, I don't know, but we sure as hell would have had the best chance to win, and that after all, is what a manager is paid to provide.
342. Note:
This is the same thinking that led to starting Kevin Brown in Game 7 last year. Why, because he was rested, not because he gave us the best chance to win, and you all felt the same when you opened your paper and saw his picture and not Mosses' on 3 days rest, or Duque with a tired arm. He is simply not comfy outside the box, it's that simple.
343. Stormer, I'm beginning to think this claptrap about "hunches" may actually be the way Torre works. Mouths agape, as you say, but he is maddeningly inconsistent. The use of the bullpen, except when it's the lock-step TanGorMo move, is the most obvious example of this. But, another is the violation of his own dictum: "go with the hot hand." Bubba Crosby was providing him with superb defense while giving him some surprising offense then..phfftttt...he's nowhere to be seen. It then becomes more important to give Sierra ABs. Torre has managed, what, 2000 major league games. Is this how he reacts to a single game when the vaunted offense scores only 1 run? Add offense as if Sierra had hit worth a lick since June? Well, it's a good thing we had the benefit of Sierra's 0 fer today as well as his wonderful impression of Helen Keller playing baseball in the field.
344. Johnny,
He is giving Sierra AB's because he thinks he will need him in the playoffs. I swear by that analysis.
One more example of bullshit "playoffs" now words, when actions betray them.
He is, for lack of a better expression, putting the cart before the horse, and it's killing us.
345. Torre's mantra is E-P-E-R-I-E-N-C-E; Sierra has it, Bubba doesn't. As with handedness, it's more important than ability.
In psychology, it's well known that people with low IQs are "stimulus bound." In another words, there are very few degrees of freedom between stimulus and response.
That's Torre.
346. I understand the knocks on Torre's decisions, but I look at it this way.
If Sierra had hit a 3 run homer today and the Yanks had won, none of you would be complaining about Torre's stupid decision to start him in right. It's totally Monday morning quarterbacking.
On a 6 game winning streak, within a game in the loss column, Torre saw an opportunity to get an important player some at bats. Sierra will not contribute to the team if he can't get a few at bats at some point. If that's the case, why even have him on the team? Seriously.
Sheffield shouldn't play the field in Toronto with the turf, and therefore you have to chose between Crosby and Sierra. I understand the gamble. It didn't pay off.
Embree is in the same situation. Why even have him on the team if you can't trust him to get the outs he's paid to get. Gordon and Rivera don't get anymore days off for the rest of the year and that includes a lengthy playoff run, I hope. Torre was playing from behind and went with some guys who he needs to get going. It's the perfect spot to do it.
The fact is, it's easy to blame Torre for these decisions, but if they'd played well and we'd won, how many people would still call them stupid moves? He tried to buy a comeback with his secondary guys, and they flopped. It's their fault more than Joe's.
I won't be a Joe apologist very often, but if we go on to win 5 or 6 in a row and catch the Red Sox now, and the key guys got some rest today, it was worth it. If Sierra breaks out and goes on a hitting tear for the rest of the year, maybe it was worth it.
Today was disappointing, and some things went wrong, but blame the players for not earning their paychecks before automatically jumping on Torre for everything.
347. Great post mikeplugh.
I don't understand the knocks on Torre though, at least not the personal ones. Questioning his managing is one thing, but to act as if he's totally incompetent is ludicrous. I was listening to Davey Johnson on WFAN the other day, he made an observation that (most) people always fail to remember when questioning a manager's in-game decisions for the game that the team just played. What you did on the previous days directly effects what you'll do in that day's game. The fact that RJ got himself kicked out and the Yankees bullpen couldn't hold an 8 run lead, then that forced Torre's hand for what he could do on Sunday. These men aren't robots, their chance of getting hurt or becoming ineffective (see Scott Shields in LAA, Tom Gordon last year) because of overuse has to be taken into account. Torre must be able to trust his lefty 'specialist' Embree to face the lefties. Criticizing Torre is one thing, having personal attacks levied against him is another. I truly admire the job he's done this year, I might be in the minority but I'm not afraid to admit it. Could he have done it better? Definitely. Could everyone in the Yankee front office have done a better job? Unequivocally YES. Torre has been fighting an uphill battle all year, most of you feel that any other manager (even a HS coach as it was stated an earlier message) would have done so much better. I'm one of the few that doesn't think that anyone else would have done a better job. I know I'll hear the usual stuff, "Torre cost us 10 games, Torre's decision to use Womack, Torre's decision to bring in Embree to face Kornecko"…blah…blah…..blah…blah…..just shut-up already…..it makes me f-en sick to read that crap.
348. I was reading Bill James's guide to managers last night, and he's got an essay in that book about the fact that managers eventually lose effectiveness once they've been in a certain job for a while.
The book was written a few years back, so he was mostly using dudes like Billy Martin and Bobby Cox as his exemplars, but one of his points is that a new manager can try a bunch of new things and axe a bunch of personnel because he has no loyalties yet, and because that's what he's expected to do. A current manager has less freedom in that regard, so he keeps doing the things he's always done, even if it's obvious to the outside observer that he should switch things up a bit.
I have a lot of respect for Torre, but the guy is burnt out; he doesn't get the results he used to. According to James, this just...happens to managers, over time, so in that theory it's not even his fault, exactly, but still: enough already.
At the very least, get rid of Stottlemyre.
349. I can't disagree with Sars' post just above.
Anyone loses effectiveness when they've been doing the same thing over a long period of time, particularly something which requires motivating people. The same style and message inevitably wears thin. See Pat Riley and the Lakers.
I think there's something to it with Torre, but the flaw with that theory is that Torre has managed a different bunch of guys virtually every year of late. New pitchers, and new sluggers hit the scene like they're going out of style.
To me, we don't need a new manager or a new pitching coach as much as we do a new philosophy. Youth, speed, and craftier pitchers. The hitters we have are old and slow for the most part. The pitchers we have are not guys who have proved that they can wriggle out of tough spots. Mussina can. Small seems to be able to, and Chacon has shown flashed. Wright and Pavano have been hit or miss and have on occasion given up the farm. Brown was bad every time out, and Randy Johnson dominates until someone hits a 3 run homer.
350. Sierra:
Pre All-Star: 284 .320 .484 .804
Post All-Star: .137 .170 .235 .405
If Sierra hit a 3 run HR, Torre's ill-conceived move might have been camouflaged, but his post break stats demonstrate how incredibly unlikely that possibility was. Consequently, it made far more sense to use the player who has hit .320 .320 .400 .720 in September, especially since lefties hit .324 .379 .495 .875 against Lilly, while righties hit .252 .332 .441 .773. Add to those compelling stats the fact that Bubba may be the Yankees' best defensive OFer, while Sierra may be their worst, and the case is overwhelming that Torre's decision to play Sierra was unsupportable.
351. I guess the people who blindly support Torre tell people to shut up because they can't make factual cases to support their arguments. That is the real crap.
I for one will never shut up. Capish?