I first remember hearing rap records in the summer of 1983. I was 12 and went to summer camp at the YMCA on the upper west side. Buffalo Gals and Sucker MC’s. I also recall spending a lot of time hating Synchronicity, the hit record by the Police (though I did like their four previous records), and rolling my eyes at Thriller, the Michael Jackson album that just would not go away. On every bus trip we took, Thriller dominated.
One of my counselors, a teenage girl from uptown, was bemused when I told her that I didn’t like Michael. It was as if I told her that I didn’t like breathing. I was into the Kinks at the time. It wasn’t until years later that I came to appreciate that record and how great is sounds–that I allowed myself to enjoy it. Oddly enough, I’ve always had more affection for Off the Wall and some of the Jackson 5 stuff, which is far more infused with my early childhood memories.
I have not been swept up in public reaction to Jackson’s death but I have reflected on his career, and just how monumental a figure he was for my generation. His influence was massive and he was a terrific entertainer. I get a sense of mass relief in the outpouring of affection he’s received this week. It became almost impossible to adore him when he was still alive. Now that he’s gone, it is safe to embrace his music and, at least for the moment, avoid the strange reality that was his life.
Over at his wonderful blog, Soul Sides, writer/dj Oliver Wang has done a tremendous job since Jackson died last week. Head on over and scroll down for all of the posts. Here is one that contains a great M-J-5 mix and these words of wisdom:
Anyone who has every DJed any party, anywhere knows that when everything else fails, you can always put on some MJ and it’s like Insta-Party. As a fellow DJ wrote, “MJ has always been the most “guaranteed go-to” artist for DJs in the history of DJs.” True that.
The thing is…it’s so easy to get the party started with MJ, it’s like an unfair advantage over the audience. It’s so easy that I’ve usually avoided playing anything too obvious by MJ simply because…it’s too easy.
And I was thinking: who else comes close to having that kind of power? The only artist even in the conversation is Prince but even then, we’re talking about Purple Rain-era Prince mostly whereas with MJ, you can drop everything from “I Want You Back” (1970) to “Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough” (1979) to “Billie Jean” (1982) to “Smooth Criminal” (1987) and it’s on like Donkey Kong.
Some records are just sure-shots–Tell Me Something Good and Use Me come to mind–and Michael had more than his fair share, didn’t he?
Even as someone whose heart in no way bleeds for Michael Jackson, I cannot let my opinion of Michael the man (or whatever) change that his music was fantastic.
And in my experience, Thriller topped all those songs at a party.
I must be in the vast minority, but I have been completely unaffected by MJ's death. I was never really a fan of his growing up, and he's been such a non-entity from a musical perspective for what seems like ages. In the meanwhile, he become an increasingly creepy and disturbing individual. I have a hard time reflecting on MJ the artist of the 70s and early 80s since that person has been gone for a long time.
I'm too young, but was this what is was like when Howard Hughes died in the 1970s? Was there a great public outpouring for the once daring film producer and philanthropist, or were people saying "that dude was weird"?
[2] It's a silent minority, but I think it's bigger than most would believe. I agree with you completely...the Michael Jackson who was a sensational entertainer died sometime back in the 1980s.
I was just talking to a great record nut pal of mine who doesn't agree with the connection many people make between Off the Wall and Thriller as two parts of a whole. "That's like comparing Revolver to Sgt Peppers," he said, or, using a baseball analogy, Babe Ruth the pitcher vs. Babe Ruth the everyday player.
Off the Wall was a perfectly realized disco record, the Gamble and Huff Philly sound gone L.A. While Thriller was conceived of as a huge crossover record, "an amusement park, a Christmas special of a record," according to my friend, complete with guest stars--Paul McCartney and Eddie Van Halen. It was designed to be boffo.
Thriller was also of its moment and very different from Off the Wall because of the advent of MTV. The video from Off the Wall featured Michael against a green screen. The videos for Thriller were slick, on a completely different level.
"I love Off the Wall," my friend said, "but is there anything as happy as the records the Jackson Five made in those early couple of years? When Michael was 10 years old and singing from his feet? He never belted out songs like that when he got older. It always felt like he was holding back."
Orioles busting on beckett. makes me smile.
[2] yep, i'm totally with you. Completely unaffected beyond the general idea that death sucks for anyone. I'm mostly annoyed that crucial issues like democracy in Iran (and Honduras) might be getting less coverage than it should because of it.
I agree with you about favoring Off The Wall over Thriller, but the magic with Thriller was that the tops songs had state-of-the-art videos (c'mon, John Landis directed the Thriller video, and the premiere was a major news event). Also, where Off The Wall had a vibe that threaded each song together and appealed to me directly, Thriller was more eclectic and challenging. Billy Jean was different from Beat Itwas different from Thriller, and they were all fabulous, and to reach them you had to listen to the other songs which were really good as well; I would venture that hip-hop artists followed his lead in the way they arranged their albums so that they followed a similar formula.
Good call Will. I prefer Off the Wall aesthetically but they are apples and oranges. Some really good joints on Thriller.
[4] Dammit! That's the second time I've channeled a Banterer's thoughts today! I hope that crosses over into sabermetrics, cuz then maybe I can scare the hell out of some of you at least once >;)
Michael was my first musical hero. And though I rarely DJ anymore, in the '90s when I did so frequently, there was one and only one song that worked EVERY time in any situation to get the party people movin'. "Kiss" by Prince was all powerful.
GREAT CALL on "Kiss." That makes the sure shot list FOR SURE!
I'm going to ask indulgence for revisiting something from last night here here because a) Alex is in this thread and b) it is not-baseball.
I popped in late to enjoy what I thought would have to be an upbeat even giddy Banter game thread after a late win and a legendary BoSox collapse. I read, blinked a few times, logged out. As some will know, I've been dodging the game threads (I know, if I do that the terrorists win...) and that's part of my point here. People pushed away.
Every bar, in the real world or in cyberspace, will have a few people who get too loud and argumentative, drink too much, enjoy their voices or a belligerent scrap, or repeating a mantra of some sort over and over and over ... you usually learn to live with it, or find another bar.
But sometimes the noise gets so loud, and the crudeness so extreme that it kind of takes over or defines the setting. That's how I felt reading the last 150-200 messages last night. Bum Rush declared that he only has a problem with one person here (william) but a number of people were making the point that THEY have a problem with Bum Rush and his baiting of william and affecting general tone. He wasn't listening. If someone 'hears' what's being said, they adjust, we carry on. If they decline to hear it and keep shouting, it really does change the dynamic of a space ... and that applies to the Banter, as much as anywhere else.
I know that Alec posted some 'rules of the road' awhile back, for courtesy, tone, language, ad hominem ... I'm curious, Alec, to what degree you expect these to be followed voluntarily, or if you're aware that a genuinely fun place to hang out can easily become less so?
Time is short, baseball's a game, baseball fandom's a sometimes passionate recreation. I'm guessing most of us come here for like-minded hanging out among Yankee fans, for the factoids people have, to discuss moves made or not made ... to banter. There are a lot of clever, amusing people here. When it gets as ugly as it did last night (not for the first time, just the most extreme) the Banter's a different place.
I prefered Thriller for three reasons.
1) Vincent Price was on it, who was one of my favorite actors from the horror genre a bit more than a generation ago,
2) My birthday is Halloween, so I am biased to all things of a ghastly nature, and
3) The corpse dance was much more fun to do (see also Beat It)!
: )
11) I was made aware of what went down last night and addressed it with BR privately. We value all of our commentors, the people who not only take the time to visit her and contribute but those regulars who spend much time here at the Banter. While we aren't as strict as we could, even should be with our guidelines, nobody is above the rules and if pushed we will take measures to make sure that person can't contribute. I'm all for different opinions, passion and banter, but when it becomes personal, sacastic to the point of being mean, that spoils the party for everyone.
Cliff and I are often not in the game threads to monitor the goings ons. If anyone ever has any problem, please don't hesitate to drop me an e-mail.
Thanks.
I think with Thriller it really depends what age you were when it came out. I was 9.
To people a few years older (Alex, others I have discussed this with) it makes a significant difference.
I would suggest that at that age I was still very susceptible to the media hologram™, MTV, and Radio.
It may have been the last period in my life I could be considered to have had mainstream tastes, shaped in large part by the hype machine.
I think if you were an adolescent/young teen, you would have already developed your filter, and may have begun branching out into more underground artists.
While I considered myself a huge Michael fan at that time, I can't say his death has affected me much more than being a bit sad at what he let his life devolve into, and as a reminder of general mortality.
[0] Sounds like somebody should turn Oliver Wang on to James Brown.
[0] Maybe as far as party power goes, Prince is limited to one era and MJ isn't. I actually disagree, as you could put on "Kiss" or "Hot Thing", etc and it would have a pretty darn good effect. But anyway, it's funny because just today I was saying the opposite re: Prince and MJ - that Jackson had two really good albums and the rest is hit or miss - mostly miss - whereas Prince had at least five hot albums.
Again, this may be just about who gets the party started and I think in that regard Jackson's music would have more effective tracks, not least because it's more appropriate. There really is a vast difference between most of their music, notwithstanding the fact that MJ stole the blueprints for Thriller from Dirty Mind ; )
[3] "the Michael Jackson who was a sensational entertainer died sometime back in the 1980s."
I think the vast majority of people would agree, and probably would have agreed before his death.
[4] I really disagree with your friend about MJ belting things out when he was older. He did stop doing it eventually but there are plenty of vigorous vocals on Off the Wall, Thriller, and even Bad. Also, I find it hard to think of those J5 record as "happy" given the context from which they sprang. I suppose that's a shame.
I liked "Thriller." The album, not the song so much. My sister used to say it was the best album ever made. (Remember when they used to call him "The Archangel Michael"?)
But later MJ just kind of creeped me out. He started looking like an extraterrestrial, with all that plastic surgery. His songs got weird and whiny. The child molestation thing was the last straw. It got to the point where I didn't want to buy his music because I didn't want to give him any money.
I don't deny his talent, but I'm not that affected by his death. And not that surprised, either. Hyperbaric chamber or no, he didn't seem like someone who would age well.
Remember last night's AMAZING O's comeback? Well today, they go to the 9th leading 5-1. 9th innijng. Leading 5-1. Guess what?
At least Toronto finally beat the Rays.