Back to the game. The Yanks did not make any major moves while the Red Sox boosted their offense with the addition of Victor Martinez, and their fielding by trading for Casey Kochman. Two nice moves and perfectly timed given the Big Papi Mishegoss.
Halladay stays put.
The Bombers lost a close one last night. They are gunna need to put some runs on the board this evening with Mr. Mitre on the mound.
Time to get back to work. Let’s go, fellas. We believe in ya.
Yeah! Enough fartin' around and get back to winning non stop!
: )
Worth noting: the White Sox traded their scheduled starter, Clayton Richard, in the deal for Jake Peavy. D.J. Carrasco will start for Chicago tonight.
The Yankees picked up Jerry Hairston Jr. for a throwaway minor leaguer. There's your right-handed bench bat, though Shelley Duncan is here tonight in place of Jonathan Albaladejo. Shelley's not starting because the lefty got traded. Erik Hinske's in right tonight against the righty Carrasco.
[2] I asked on the last thread--do you think the team will ship Duncan out when Hairston arrives, or will they DFA Ransom?
Hmmm. Hairston plays just about every position, though none of them very well. I'm guessing they send Shelley back down. The Yanks have enough corner OFers.
[4] I like the roster flexibility of 2 BUIF, but I I also like having more of an offensive threat of the bench. If it were me, I might choose to carry only Hairston and keep Duncan around on the off chance he steps into the occasional LH pitch.
"You want more information, I'm pretty sure you guys got the phone number to the union. Call the union, and they can explain that to you guys. ... Me and David, we're like two mountains. We're going to keep playing the game, and we're going to keep doing good. We're trying to move forward; that's the key here." -- Manny Ramirez checking in from St. Louis tonight
Mountains? More like a couple of boobs, really big boobs!
: )
[3] interesting question, I had just assumed Duncan, but Ransom makes sense, I need to dig around on Hairston. Been writing about Martinez and Peavy for SI. Look for those later tonight.
Greetings from section 5 in RF in Camden Yards. I'd say the crowd is 40% BoSox. Me? I'm wearing an O's polo shirt and eating Boog's BBQ.
Ah, here's the Martinez one.
[6] "We're like two mountains...we're trying to move forward."
It's reminiscent of--but not quite as silly as--Shaq referring to himself as the Pythagorean Theorem (no solution).
[8] Now Boog's is definitely "Good Eats!"
What was the pulse around the convention about Ortiz, Diane?
I guess Hairston will be the backup CFer now. He was the Reds' starting CFer for awhile.
MLB network ticker just read that Dice-K's been placed on the 60 day DL.
[8] oriole shirt + boogs' bbq = red sox loss
hope you enjoyed the sabr convention.
i think it really depends on what they see hariston as - just a uif or do they play on playing him some in the of - former, bye cody; latter, bye shelley
Oh, someone on Twitter reported that we traded Austin Jackson for Hairston. Reds fans got all excited.
[10] The only things in common between mountains, and Ramirez/Ortiz are all the rocks... as in "as dumb as!"
And some more "celebrity kids" go the way of "Home Schooling" starting this fall...
"Thanks dad!"
: )
[13] is 60 days enough time to replenish his piggy bank?
maybe they needed the roster spot for all their 1b.
[14] I don't see it that way, though you may be right. There is no way he is going to take any starting CF time from Melky, so there is no reason he cannot be the semi-emergency BUCF and also the primary BUIF.
Hairston is not much of a hitter; in fact, he might be worse than Ransom over the long haul. So I would like to think that the team will not carry both Ransom AND Hairston (and Molina), along with 12 pitchers. That would mean that the bench is essentially Hinkse and...Hinske.
[15] LOL @ Reds fans! Weren't they also the ones who thought they were getting Chamberlain and Hughes for Arroyo? I mean the Yankees really need a fifth starter!
[13] Wow, he is the first guy in MLB history to be underworked onto the 60 day DL. That's surprising, given how lazy Americans surprisingly are.
[17] he don't need no stinkin' piggy bank. he keeps his "savings" in his shoulder! ; )
[18]
per petey:
UPDATE, 6:42 p.m.: It could be one and done for Shelley. Sounds like the Yankees may keep Ransom and Hairston to expand roster versatility. Girardi talked about being able to use them both. Interesting.
i think we know the word for this.
[14]
good time all 3 days so far ....
George Michael conducted a fun and free-wheelin interview with Frank Howard and Rick Dempsey this morning. Christina Kahrl gave a great speech about the need for all types of analysis when evaluating talent. I had a fun chat with Curt Smith, author of a new biog on Vin Scully.
Hairston was a starter with the Reds, though at many different positions. (LF, RF, CF, SS, 2B, 3B) A lot of SS and 3B, because Encarnacion and Gonzalez spent a lot of the season the DL. But I can't see him starting for the Yanks. He'll be a bench player. A very versatile one, but he's not good enough with the bat or glove to start.
[8] Camden Yards such a great place to watch a game, hope you get to see Jones and Markakis smack Smoltzie around!
Off to "Little Edo" Kawagoe today for some special buckwheat soba and more grilled eel on rice, hope I get home later to see a good win on Gameday!
Oh, and Peavy to the ChiSox..nice move but Tigers should still hold them off...
[20] "...supposedly are..."
OK, back the regularly scheduled program.
[13] The Unabridged RSN Dictionary defines that as "We're going with John Smoltz should we make the post season. After all, he's a 'Company Guy'."
On a poetic note, tomorrow is Victor Martinez Bobble Head Day in Cleveland! - Source - Indians Season Ticket Holder
: )
[22] Is "roster flexibility" a code for "having bad players at multiple positions"? Maybe they can teach Molina how to play 1B or RF and go for the trifecta.
Meanwhile, Hinkse--whose strength was supposed to be potential flexibility--is banished to the bench and an occasional start in RF only.
[27] You spend too much time reading the Official RSN Dictionary. : D
"start queuing up for your playoff tickets in Boston."
So Cliff, who doesn't get to lineup for tickets now, Tampa or New York?
[28] Didn't Luis Sojo provide "roster flexibility", which contributed to 4 championships? Don't you know, good teams need "character" guys who are "team first" and "play the game the right way"!
[29] Well somebody has to translate their gibberish into English around here, Just Fair!
Heh heh
[31] I do tend to forget that.
You know, I was really hoping the roster insanity would end when Torre left. This season has been a huge disappointment. I know most of the roster moves I bitch about take place at the fringes, but it is frustrating nonetheless to see than carry 13 pitchers in a week when the starters all gor 7 or 8 innings, to burn a promising young starter on the 8th INNING when the rotation is short, to to refuse to take advantage of certain players who may provide some platoon pop or even a little roster flexibility, to carry multiple awful hitters on the bench, and so forth. Some of this falls on the GM for creating a weaker bench, but a lot falls on the manager for the way he uses his resources (and I have no doubt that Girardi has a good deal of input over who is placed on the active roster).
[33] Agreed, the moves at the end of the roster this year have been extremely baffling. Angel Berroa will remain a mystery of the universe for quite some time I feel...
Looking to the postseaseon though, having Hinske and Hairston as your main bat and glove on the bench..not too shabby?
I really wanted Washburn a whole lot. We may get him in the winter, but I still see major issues with JobaPhil ahead and Washburn, this year's version, would have fit in extremely well. I think he'll help the Tigers a lot - in part because he solves THEIR innings cap issue.
Jerry H is a bit like Hinske ... minor update in terms of depth, mainly while Gardner's out. No biggie, little surrendered. Not even worth Hairston Jr jokes.
Bosox will have some managing choices to be made, unless someone gets hurt ... V Mart leaves them solidly covered at C and both corners now and I assume he's the C next year.
Cash stuck to his 'I won't pay twice' philosophy, it looks like.
[33-34] yeah i don't get these roster decisions either. as you say they are at the periphery but they still should be maximized.
at least when gritner comes back they can send a fruit basket to one of these guys.
[30] The Rays. They were the ones who needed Martinez.
Sounds like Girardi sees Hairston as a Gardner replacement.
Will Varitek add a B,E,N, and H to the front of his jersey now?
[39] I was wondering about that too, Just Fair. Not so subtle a way for the Red Sox to let Cap'n Tek know he's finished, was it?
I also wonder if VMart can catch Wakefield...
Still can't get over the VMart Bobble Head Day in Cleveland tomorrow!
Doh!
: )
[40] I'd say Cleveland has had a rough year but they got to be used to it by now.
[39] Peep my SI piece on Martinez linked above for my take.
[42] Good stuff, indeed. Can't say I like the last sentence, though. : D My hope is that there will be "wicked clubhas' tension" and they'll bomb the final 2 months of the season.
Big Injection just homered for the Sox..up 3-0 now.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/nyregion/31pizza.html?em
This article is insane! I grew up two blocks from Di Fara's and it was NEVER considered the best pizza in the neighborhood, let alone the city. Jerry's pizza just two blocks down on East 13th st was MUCH better. Jerry was from Naples and also imported a lot of his ingredients. Last time I was back he was close to retired..and had converted to kosher as Midwood became more Orthodox..in any case, $5 for a slice is an outrage...
[44] $5 per slice? Better make it four. I don't think I can afford eight!
: )
hey we got to their bullpen already!
Nice hustle Cap'n!
Woohoo!
score truckin'
Wow, is Alex scuffling at the dish...
Another run though!
jorge dp special
[50] Eight for his last 40... two doubles... zero HR.
Ouch!
diane has willed bal to 3 runs
robbie is making catches the 4th of in slow pitch territory
AJ..there's that news van again...3-1, can Mitre hold it? got to split now, hope the O keeps bangin and we win easily in a Bruney-proof game!
that could have been worse
mitre is always going to give up hits - he can't start walking people too
Ian Kennedy were are you?
everytime i see shelley i think of mice and men
[57] haha Lenny?
this has the makings of the mitre experiment going quite awry
Mitre kinda SUCKS : /
[58] yep :}
Um, this is not good. Triple play time?
Oh goodie, and Beckham is up. This has grand slam written all over it.
What the bejesus is up with the clumsy non athletic pitcher karma lately...
i see the lovely tradition of a major asshat who yells throughout the game conveniently located near the field mic at the cellular continues
And the Yanks didn’t trade for a pitcher to give this guy a chance?
Doesn’t look good.
[66] Who should they have traded for? AJax for Washburn? Hughes, Joba and Montero for Halladay?
Well, Bronson Arroyo and Aaron Harang can likely be had. They're paid so much they'd clear waivers.
Ah, Melky's arm giveth, then taketh away.
not the most prudent play there guys
total bollocks.
and Hawk is horrible. : /
is aceves available tonight?
if so, how much could he even go?
This guy is horrible. I don't see how in the world Phil and Joba don't trade places when the time comes. Unless I'm missing something, we have two good starting pitchers once Joba meets the innings limit and then a lot of gack. Mitre is just disgusting to watch tonight. Awful.
[68] do you watch the reds a lot?
50 pitches for 4 outs. lovely.
robertson already up in the pen.
(67)Not Washburn, but maybe Bannister, Meche or even Arroyo.
All we need a decent number 5 starter.
Or a sold right handed relief pitcher and put Hughes in the starting rotation
[71] sorry man - mitre + hawk must be totally excrutiating
[72] he's been sore and hasn't pitched in 10 days. i have no idea...
[77] i know, the ONE time i get to watch my boyz on tv and i get this crap. figures.
From what I understand we could have had Bannister for 650k. If that's true, not paying 650k to enhance a 200 million payroll is just stupid as a financial play. This guy doesn't look remotely competent.
You can't get Bronson Arroyo unless he promises to do steroids again.
[80] i agree. i didn't understand why those dollars prevented that. plus, i love that kid! saber-dork!!! : )
I don't want anything to do with that "keep the myth aliver through bad andro" bs'er. Besides, he has a stupid looking face.
Time to search the waiver wires for a 5th starter.
[74] Not a lot, but some. I have a lot of friends who follow the NL Central teams.
Two Ks on 3-2 pitches...frustrating. The Yankees may need 10 runs in this game, so they can't let Carrasco off the hook.
All I know is losing two straight to this schlub .500 team is unacceptable. And I don't care how much like Sir Pizza, Mitre looks...
garza got fined an undisclosed amount for hitting tex.
didn't aj get *suspended* for NOT hitting a batter?!?!
what gives?!
damn - good piece of hitting but no run in
[88] That would be MLB "horseshit," Thelarmis...
SSDD
Mats scorched that!
man, i'd love to plate these 2 runs...
[90] yeah, sounds about right. : /
bollocks.
...
Another wasted opportunity...the Yankees better wake themselves up.
crap - got to get lots of runs this game
Dammit. I really thought they'd get a run in there.
It seems to me that Matsui no longer can hit to the opposite field. He simply tries to pull every pitch.
Frustrating day and night so far.
Such a great afternoon yesterday with the Red Sox steroid news - please don't let this be one of those things where it all goes downhill from there. Please don't let that glorious moment be the precursor to nothing but gack.
alright end this now - otherwise they are just giving this game away
The hell with this guy - Mitre is a bum. My blood pressure is rising.
There leaving in Mitre because?
[101] They're!
Okay, when Mitre does that it's time for him to leave...
Amazing how the Yankees can beat the Twins in their building, who I think are better than the ChiSox, and then they go to Chicago and look like they did in April.
Wow!
carlos quen'in -
yes, he did...
[96] i didn't.
My goodness...Kay and Al along with the pitching is making this veerryy difficult....
[104] Is he from Manha'in?
: )
9 baserunners. 5 runs. 67 pitches for 7 outs. feh!
Find myself thinking that another pitcher from Girardi's past that he had confidence in was Farnsworth. Great...
nice play, jeter.
This is now three bad starts from Mitre. He should not get a fourth, even if it means going to Igawa. Maybe the Yankees should have been a little more aggressive in their pursuit of a pitcher?
106, I call a Kay and Leiter booth an idiot salad. It's agony.
i like kay, but he doesn't do well in a booth with just himself and kay - he really needs the other person
[113] Have they brought up Flash again?
/shudder
: )
Remember the old Sesame Street skit about which one of these things is not like the other? Well, on this team, Sergio Mitre is the answer. He is like a rusty old gate around a nice big mansion.
[111] yeah these games are too important to just piddle away.
it also makes it near impossible to skip any of joba's starts.
when he was just giving up hits he wasn't a disaster.
but this game is showing that if he loses a tiny bit of command and walks a few people he is an unmitigated disaster.
Classic exchange to end the inning between those two:
Kay: "Is it that he can't throw strikes or is he afraid of contact"
Leiter: "Well, I don't know... (random babble, babble)
Leiter's mealy mouthed non answers drive me nuts
[114] thankfully no flash sitings.
it is unacceptable how long it has been with no coney. al does well with o'neill as the 3rd person too.
fuck. he did again...
ah shit - please don't be one of those nights
Well struck by Melky, Damn him for catching that ball.
Evening, Team.
tie the game, eric.
I like Al Leiter. He's one of my favorites.
[116] When Mitre was facing the likes of Oakland, you could envision the Yankees winning his starts 7-5. Against better offenses, however, he is bound to get hamered. He has so little on his pitches that it looks like I could grab a hat and hit him.
hinske!!!!
[122] thank you!!! : )
hinske with your best shot!!!
Just tuned in to see how Mitre-good-enough-for-a-this-offense-fifth-starter-about-as-good-as-hughes is doing.
Not so good, it seems. At this rate, he'll end up being the worst starter to take the honorary Injured Wang Rotation Turn.
Nice job, Eric Hinske, whoever you are, however you got on this team.
Woohoo Hinske!
I hate when outfielders try to fool us like that.
[122] i'm taking that as a prediction nostralarmis - nice
Hinski has now earned the right to start every 12th game!
[122] eric listened to me!
[128] Remember, Weeping--demon long ball kills!
[126] Oh, that's terrible!
That boy just hits nothing but home runs God bless him - dang!
[134] :)
[131] yeah! i had to let you guys know i still had it. Cult asked me to hold down the fort this weekend! : )
Nostralarmis at your service. here are the keys to the score truck. no speed limit!
It's 5-5, but with Mitre on the mound it feels like they are trailing 8-5. Of course, I am sure White Sox fans probably feel like they are trailing on 8-5. These types of games are why you can't have a Mitre in the rotation. With a competent pitcher, they would otherwise be easy wins.
I like this "bench player who can hit a little bit" concept.
as long as hinske is swinging the bat well - might as well use him at 3b on alex's rest days
Sox going to Papelbon with a lead; TB and Texas winning two. The Yankees need this game.
O'Neill and Coney are by far my favorites. I love what they bring to the booth. They're entertaining and they really add value with hard information.
[141] Now you're just being silly.
i really think i would go to the pen to start this inning
[145] If only Rudolph were here!
I mean, if only Phil Hughes were here.
[145] I would too...Melancon or Robertson to Aceves could be a formula that works.
[141] Not if he plays 3B like he throws from RF...
Watching his "throw," I thought they put Damon over there tonight and he had a room service hop running towards the infield and everything!
: )
welcome aboard davey!
[145] Your wish is granted.
[148] yeah i'm sure he is a disaster there - but might as well ride his bat - maybe play him during aj's starts - it's not as if cody's defense has been any revelation over there
The Yankees could have really used a healthy IPK this season.
[152] that's for damn sure - either on the big club or as a mlb ready trade chip
nice pitch. great inning, kid! and only 7 pitches. : )
1-2-3!
: O
Well done, Robertson.
I think I missed something. There was a grounder to Derek and then the strikeout. Where'd the third out come from?
Credit to Girardi. He pulled the plug and let that sludge slide down the drain. Good, strong move.
i really like roberstson (when he is throwing strikes) - he gets a ton of k's
they just have to continue working with him to throw more strikes
[156] becham flied oyt to melky
[156] beckham flied to center
[159] i like my oyt grilled, thanks! ; )
well battle of the bullpens now
i betchya alex tries to steal...
[161] if you don't even eat cupcakes i'm sure you don't eat oyt :}
at least oyf can see that matsui can pop out to the opposite field
nice! E6
Ohhhh, yes!
Come on, boys, cash it in, cash it in!
Must take advantage.
Woohoo! Now make 'em pay!
[164] oyt, oyf, oy-vey! yeah, my oyt would become an ort !!! : )
as hard as jorgie tried the sox just didn't want to give him another dp
[159] [160] Cheers. Totally missed that.
[168] we won't.
Come on Robbie!! That couldn't have been the pitch you were looking for?
come on clutchy
[161] Is that oyt from Manha'in, too?
: )
That's right, big guy, throw it a hundred miles an hour!
Apparently, the scouting report on the Yankees must be to throw hanging curve balls early in the count because that seems to be what every White Sox pitcher has featured over the past two games.
Yeah, that's it!
Again, throw it as hard as you can!
Oh, fuck me.
poppycock
I don't like where this game is headed.
[182] Won't it go to Cooperstown, like all the others?
: )
Red Sox win.
feh. i HATE when we give up leadoff walks. hate it.
strikes - roberston - STRIKES!!!
Leadoff walk...can't wait to see what comes next.
[184] i HATE those three words.
Biology and Einstein?
So surely Mitre will be demoted after the game, but who will they call up in his place? Albie is stuck at AAA for 10 days, correct?
[189] no chemistry
Grrrr.
"Just flicking the ball, like a cricket player."
That's right, Al, that's the stuff!
Great...this weekend isn't starting off well.
[190] I'd rather see Igawa than Mitre.
Oh my God, that 1-1 was right down the pike.
Too close for comfort.
[190] Jerry Hairston Jr.?
Hey, John Sterling just called V. Martinez a "professional hitter!"
How come they can hit the breaking stuff?
fuck - i guess robertson was ongly good for 1 inning
fucking bollocks.
That's just awful, awful pitch selection...why they would go offspeed when they had him beat with the fastball is beyond me. If the Yankees don't get their collective heads out of their asses, they'll be leaving Chicago in second place.
[197] I would approve, but somehow I doubt they go with 11 pitchers, especially after the entire BP is blown up tonight.
Man, that was a lucky break. Buy a beer for whoever told Cano to stand there.
That breaking ball is like a big old lollypop.
Help! Help!
Someone stop this madness.
As good as Robertson can look at times, he simply has no command of his pitches. It really feels like a crapshoot with him.
that was a lucky call
What?
Did he swing?
Wtf?
robertson's really missing his spots. we'll be lucky if he keeps this a 1-run game.
Thing was ten feet inside.
Wow...that was an awful call.
That's some fucking break. I can't believe they just took it lying down.
[203] Well, they could call up Alby if there's an injury of some kind.
Or there's Edwar...
[207] yep - until he improves his command he will never be an integral part of the pen
This is not the best game to follow a day of inaction at the trade deadline.
Pfew.
Damn lead off walks.
Kay said what I was going to post - that was a HUGE batter.
whe - another 1 run inning that could have been way worse
time to pull the score truck out of the garage
i wish Ace were available for the 6th & 7th...
we need some score truckin'...
That called third strike was a strike on Gameday, fwiw.
[214] Oh yeah, I forgot about Edwar. Or they would have to find an "injury" for Mitre, since teh recalled player can only replace the injured player.
[220] great minds and all... : )
I think Mitre will make his next start, vs Toronto.
[207] Not including tonight, Robertson has a better than 2:1 K:BB, 5th best among the relievers (Mo, Hughes, Aceves, and Coke are all better, Coke only slightly the others crazy) - but better than Pettitte, Burnett, and Joba. Not that K:BB is the end-all be-all determinant of command, but its a good indicator.
[222] looked like a strike to me, just a high one that's almost never called
[225] You might be right. I hope not, but could be correct.
[222] Gameday's smoking crack.
aceves is available as he is up in the pen
Nice Shriek !!!
I love leadoff walks!
[225] From Pete Abe: "Mitre has allowed 23 hits in 12.2 innings this season. "
Igawa could do that in his sleep!
I *hate* Edwar. He's always a disaster waiting to happen.
Pena looks like he'll walk the ballpark. I hope DJ shows some patience.
Ace is up. hopefully he's not too rusty...or injured.
[223] I don't think that's true. Any injury will do. It doesn't have to be a pitcher for a pitcher.
Fuck. This. Shit.
[234] Or maybe not.
instead of observing you guys ,thought I'd jump in tonite. looks like the sox survived smoltz' start. need some hitting w/risp to make this a series.
I've got the Toronto-Oakland game on in the background (on mute, so I can listen to the insight and excitement of Sterling/Waldman)...man, the stands in Oakland are empty.
This is agony.
ugh. terrible terrible terrible JD. terrible.
A.J.=the most hated man in baseball?
Now Damon goes way out of the zone...with a little patience, Pena looks like he would have walked the bases loaded. Somewhere on the way to Chicago I think the Yankees hit a time warp and went back to April.
[225] his bb/9 is 5.5 - melancon's in 5.6 - no one else still around is that close to them (bruney at 4.5, aj 4.5)
i think is k/bb ratio is decent because of his strikeouts - he is the sizeable leader at 12.6 k/9
Someone shoot me.
[239] welcome - picked a frustrating game to join the fray
Horrendous inning.
[232] Which, by the way, says far more about the defense the Yanks are playing behind Mitre than it says anything about Mitre himself. Not counting tonight, Mitre's BABIP is a ridiculous .425. I imagine, after tonight, it went up. It won't stay that high.
[233] Ouch. I understand your sentiment (Edwar's K:BB, admittedly a small sample this year - 17 1/3 IP - is 16:15, or basically 1:1), but "hate" is a pretty strong word.
[245] typo - bruney's bb/9 is 4.7
[249] 425 is ridiculously high - but mitre is ridiculously hittable
melky damn near ran to wrigley on that play
Don't panic!
Yanks have best record in the AL.
Are in 1st place.
And are 11-3 since the All Star Break.
Oh yeah, they are down but 1 run, and have the best offense in the AL. In a hitters' park. Against a team with a very shaky bullpen.
[244] April? Are the Yanks not allowed to lose another game? Can't win 'em all, dude - and this one isn't anywhere near over!
Like yesterday, if the Yankees use Ace for multi innings and lose, it will be a double whammy. That could leave them very short in the pen over the next two days. That's how losing streaks develop...by losing games you should win followed by ones you deserve to lose.
[252] I know, I wonder what was up with Damon? Did he pull off because Melky had a better angle, or because Melky's less likely to drop the baseball?
thanks ms. october. nice to see Aceves back on the mound.
I think Bronson Arroyo's price went up tonight.
[253] I'm not panicking or anything, but we lost yesterday. That was "you can't win 'em all." Today's *not* house money!
[253] yeah, what he said!
[256] what's up, chris? welcome! : )
Oh well...there goes our chance to hammer Pena.
Hey, didn't we have Dotel for a month?
God, that was back in the Charlie Steiner days, wasn't it? Along with Raoul Mondesi? The dark ages.
[236] You might be right, but he would have to replace the injured player...so they would have to DL someone and recall Albie, which still leaves them short if Mitre were sent down.
[251] Sure he is, but when that BABIP comes down to .300ish, he'll be OK I think. After all, he's essentially the 5th starter, and to be a good one of those, the bar isn't high.
Excellent point on Robertson's walk rate, BTW ms october. I will say, though, that BB/PA is a better indicator than BB/9 - and that guys who strike out a lot of hitters do tend to have higher walk totals than non-strikeout pitchers. And Robertson's BB/PA is rather high. He only has 26 IP, though.
[255] i don't think damon was ever really the primary fielder on that play
[257] randy you are killing us with bronson arroyo :}
i guess if the alternative is more mitre we should shut the hell up and welcome him though
[251] I agree...Mitre deserves all the credit for his BABIP.
crapola.
[258] Its ok to lose 2 in a row too, weeping. That happens to everybody. =)
Welcome Chris!
: )
[253] It's not a matter of losing...it's that they have now played 3 of 4 awful games. In another division, they could probably get a way with such lapses, but not in the AL East.
DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fuck you, Hawk. (harrelson, not our own commenter Hawk!!!)
Dotel was a lot more recent than Raul Mondesi. Dotel was 2006. Mondesi was 2002-2003.
damn godzilla that was close
[267] That's losertalk.
Oh, HEY!!!!!!!
Oh, motherfucker. Foul.
As I was saying, that's losertalk. You keep talking like that and I'm going to exhume the Bossman to come straighten you out.
[265] william, that's just ridiculous. The whole point of a pitcher's BABIP is that he has no control over it! (Unless he's a knuckler, in which case he has a little control over it.)
[272] It's all a blur to me, but now that you mention it, I can kind of sort it out.
Matsui has two playoff homers in the Metrodome
[253] I'm not panicking at all. But I am growing weary of them throwing really, really awful starters in the honorary Wang spot in the rotation.
Mitre's BABIP is a very high .415, but his BAA is .370. I'm not sure he's been more than a little unlucky--he's been very bad.
[274] I'm too laid back for George, I'm sure. =)
[269] I'm pretty sure the Yanks have lost 3 out 4 more than once this year - and note they have NOT lost this game - and yet, here they are, in first place.
Now if they lose 10 or 12 in a row, then that's another story.
Dotel getting some weak swings. Straighten it out Hideki!
[275] I am not a slave to BABIP. If I took the mound and threw BP, my BABIP would be about .750. You have to take into account the kind of pitcher involved. Mitre has looked so bad that it doesn't surprise me has given up so many hits. That's not bad defense...it's bad pitching. Mitre will not revert to the mean of decent pitcher because he isn't one.
C'mon Po!
good - let's get it started with the walk
afterall someone has to walk over to the score truck
damnit, jorgie.
this hasn't been po's greatest night at the plate
[278] Perhaps - but the guy also has thrown less innings than Wang has. Kinda silly to throw him away after less than 20 IP, no? The other option right now is Igawa, and I'm pretty sure none of us want to go down that road again. Poor Mattpat's head might explode.
Turn on this motherfucker, Robbie. Hit it the fuck out.
This game is wretched
God damn it.
And fuck you, don't tell me to slow down, computerfuck!
[279] Definitely laid back...I don't want to wait until they lose 10 of 12. When I see three games played so poorly, it concerns me.
At least Matsui decided to work the count at least.
[286] Sidney Ponson is eventually going to be released after one of these debacles, and he's on schedule to start in five days
shit right at him
[281] yeah i agree william. babip certainly is largely about luck or out of control factors, but not totally. babip is going to be higher for shitty pitchers. if you are getting hit hard consistently you are going to have a high babip that is not the fielders' fault.
just like not all babip for hitters is luck - if all you do is hit weak grounders and pop ups you are going to have a low babip. *ability* is part of the measure.
[249] I love Edwar, but I hate watching him. I want him to do well in the worst way, but I stopped believing a long time ago.
Damn, it seems like everything has gone *just* wrong for us since the Ortiz news.
That Matsui bomb is seeming awful typical of the last two days, starting with Oakland coughing up the lead against the Red Sox.
[289] yeah that shit just adds insult to injury
[289] yeah, that word press shit is soooo infuriating.
[294] again. superior minds... : )
[294] Thank you! It most certainly does.
[291] It's amazing that no matter what the Yankees do, they always wind up with a crappy fifth starter. That also happened quite a bit during the dynasty years.
[263] thanks shaun - good stuff.
i just go to baseball refernce and i don't think they have k/pa
[295] What say we think about staging a coup?
leadoff walk! aaarrrggghhh!!!! : /
Oh, YES!
Lead off walk!
My favorite.
Great...another leadoff walk. This game really sucks.
This game feels like it's gone on forever.
[293] Edwar is one of Brian Cashman's private jokes on me. Along with Veras, Igawa, Farnsworth, Betemit and countless others
this fucking blows.
Ace, still getting his feel back. F*ck AJ.
The Yankees are just playing awful baseball against a .500 team.
[275] By quick calculation, before tonight Mitre had allowed 41 BIP. A more normal BABIP of .300 would have yielded about 12 hits. If he had only given up 12 hits, his BAA would be a more reasonable .260 rather than his current silly .370.
So, on that count he does appear unlucky. But let's look closer at his numbers. His BABIP for fly balls is .000, and for ground balls it's only .308. For line drives it's 1.000. Moreover, he has given up line drives in about 25% of BIP.
In other words, has not been very unlucky on grounders and fly balls. Rather, he's giving up lots of line drives for hits.
[300] i'm down - alittle anarchy might be just what we need
i think pj has riled up aj "pershithead" here
Agggggghhhhh.
I really don't want to lose this series.
Fuck, if we get swept by Boston again I'll jump off a building.
if they score again, i'm changing the channel. fuck this noize.
[305] I'm not sure at this point they can be called "private."
The problem with spitting the bit in these two games is that leaves Buerhle on Sunday and Halladay on Tuesday...all leading into the Boston series.
jesus h christ - need ace to round back into form
[311] it is a 4-game series. so, if we lose tonight (shudder), we can still tie the series with a weekend of wins.
OMG. wow!!! please don't be hurt!!!
Jesus Christ
holy hell what a catch - hope he is alright
Wow...that's some play Johnny.
Nice job, Johnny Damon.
he held it enough to get the out! that's balls JD!
I do not think Johnny is OK. That looks bad.
for a second there when his hat came off i thought the ball had come out
OUCH!
When hiscap came flying off, I thought it was the ball.
NICE PLAY JD!
Holy crap. Shelley Duncan might not be sent down tomorrow after all.
these fly balls are really scary.
Ok, time to get Ace out of there.
Ace doing his Catfish Hunter.
just about every hit off aceves is to the track
[310] Don't blame me! I called him that because he was already riled up when he barreled into Cano on that slide trying to take out a knee breaking up that DP last night...
Atta boy Damon!
mark kotsay is THE luckiest man on the planet. fuck him.
It sounds like Aceves is using the w-h-o-l-e ballpark. It is Aceves pitching, no? I have only one ear on the game.
Ace's BABIP on balls in play to the warning track is .000.
[313] He never came out and admitted it.
[334] How's that for redundant?
ouch, jorgie. good god.
[325] I thought it was the ball too
[338] me too.
Ace is getting hit HARD.
[336] ironic? ; )
I thought he was going to run into the stands for that third out.
that would have been a strike last night
christ come one
um, i just posted something twice. it won't appear and refreshes to the top of the page. hmmm....
ughh, not even close. It feels like there's been bases loaded every other inning.
Nibbling like that is not Aceves...Girardi has to see that, right?
[343] one what? ; )
I'm going to cover my eyes now. Let me know when I can look.
[347] ... come all and get us out of this inning
[347] I think she should leave it at that. Kind of philosophical.
[348] definitely don't look
So, how about that weather?
That was the worst pitch I've ever seen in my life.
IT WAS FUCKING 0-2!!!!!
[348] keep 'em covered.
i'm turning the game off.
fuck you, hawk!
freaking reach and bloop
Well, this is getting out of hand.
Absolutely painful.
This game has just ^%$WQ$# killed me. 0-2 count, bleep me, dang it, I am so frustrated right now I feel sick. Damn it.
this is why there is beer. i'm on my first. many more to go...
fucking ridiculous
We're going to get swept by Boston.
I'm not a violent person, but if I could reach through my TV and strangle that homer a-hole Hawk Harrelson right now, I would.
I forgot how awful he is. John Sterling, forgive me! I take it all back! There ARE worse broadcasters than you!
Well, this is why we built a 3.5 game lead. So we could piss some of it away and still be in decent shape.
[353] It was a good pitch. Low, 3 inches outside, They guy just hit it. It ain't always the pitchers fault.
please tell me that did NOT just happen. there's NO way that just happened. this is a FIRST place team?! holy fucking bullshit!!!
Jayson Nix steals home.
[359] my poison is Oban tonite. And tunes on the headphones, only way.
[362] i'm with you, man.
I just want to throw my computer through the wall.
I downloaded Super Mario Brothers 3 on my Wii. I'm inching towards that.
is this a major league ballclub?
fuck you, hawk.
now this is the bad news bears
[361] Wrong color Sox, weeping. =)
That was a very nicely executed double steal. Ozzie is sharp. Or maybe its his bench coach. Who is the Sox's bench coach anyway?
I feel bad for Posada, he just can't catch anything tonight.
And it gets worse...
The Yankees are getting what they deserve in this game. The dismal effort they have put forth in 3 of the last 4 is shocking.
The worst part is all the warning signs on Ace were evident...the sirens were blaring...and Girardi ignored them all.
Wow...it gets worse...Posada's catching has descended toward brutal.
Was Robby trying to throw his famous curve ball right there? Suck.
Great game tonight, Jorge. Solid all around, Goodness, when he is bad, he is maddening.
Oh. My. God.
[364] I guess I say that because Leiter was just talking about elevating, throwing over his head, or whatever, he had no need to be anywhere near the zone. The pitch was outside, but it looked belt high to me. It just shouldn't have been hittable on 0-2, after the change, is what Leiter was talking about.
people sing that shit at a baseball game?!?
hawk must be involved in that ritual somehow
[370] Hey, not a bad idea.
How is it, BTW, that the box score on WGN just showed the Yanks with NO errors? I count at least five.
[379] No kidding.
[379] I muted my TV. Do I even want to ask?
gotta get a strong performance from our man burnett tomorrow
I am quite pleased that Girardi kept Melancon up. This kid is going to be something special, I hope. Might as well get him ready now.
So, is Aceves unlucky, rusty, or "not right"? If he is "not right", maybe the best thing would have been to put him on the DL rather than carry a bunch of extra pitchers who never got used anyway?
Now, if they want to DL him he's lost for another 15 days.
[384] Yep!
[382] that nanana hey hey hey goodbye song
maybe i'm sheltered but i have never heard that at a basbeall stadium - just basketball arenas
[383] Strong and long...the Yankees have blown through their bullpen in two losses.
Aceves just needs work...or has he been worked too hard? He did have a lot of appearances before the break.
[385] He looked fine for the first inning, but then just lost his location in the 2nd. He absoultely should have been lifted after the walk. It was obvious that he had no command.
Waldman: "[Aceves] had been held out six days because of a 'tired arm.'"
They should have just DLed him retroactively. He'd only have been gone another week or so. Ah well.
[391] the yankees continued refusal to dl people is maddening
How many SBs do we have tonight? AJPs CS% is UNDER 10%!
[392] Yes. It is my other pet peeve...has been since the Sheffield fiasco, at least.
mercifully the 7th inning has ended
If its any consolation, I'm sure Hairston will show up tomorrow, take Duncan's roster spot and get double Hinske's playing time
[396] So long as he doesn't take any PT from Ransom...
; )
The pitching was horrible, but the offense is on the hook too. The number of bad ABs were so numerous, you can't count them. Of course, the defense was pitiful too, as was Girardi's inaction in the 7th. In other words, it's been a team effort. That's comforting heading into a stretch of 8 tough games.
That's what hitting all those home runs will get you, stupid swings. Thanks King of Queens.
[398] Get it out of our system now
Par for the course.
seriously, fuck you hawk. how do you have a job???
Nice a Jeterian DP...the cherry on the top of a shitty game.
[403] was only fitting - not much else left - maybe cokey giving up a hr to a lefty, swisher pinch hits and blunders on the basepaths
It had the sizzle of inevitability right off the bat, didn't it?
from 3-0 to 10-5 - bah
[404] Or using Mo in the ninth to get some work??
Anyway, I turned the game off a few minutes ago. It'll be Jays-A's for the rest of the evening, I think....and perhaps some nice bourbon. Oh yes, and still checking in on the Banter.
[407] Mmmm, bourbon.
4 hits to that jack___. Perfect. That peroxide hair is just to tick off the rest of us even more.
[404] I stopped watching. Has A-Rod, sitting breaking ball, stared at strike three fastball down the middle yet?
Posada?
[408] Yeah. I'm a huge fan of bourbon. Not so much for scotch, though...I guess I'm a philistine.
least melancon is looking good
[470] [410] yeah haven't check these off this list yet
The lesson from this game has to be a DFA for Mitre. Then, Cashman has to work the phones until his ears bleed. The Yankees have played 4 months without a 5th starter, so Cashman either has to get one asap or Hughes has to return to the rotation. Having guys like Sergio Mitre is absolutely unacceptable.
[411] and i'm a peasant (as my grandpa used to say!). just beer for me. i wish i could "man up" and have a scotch - i love the way it smells - but my system can't handle it. beer only for me...
[411] Indeed you are.
Mmmm, scotch.
[414] Heh heh.
[414] Hey, there's nothing wrong with beer. Try some bourbon on ice sometime...it's nice and sweet.
as crappy as this game is, Damon's catch was unreal. i guess he's okay and he just got a hit, but i woulda taken him out. i hope he's truly alright. that play was teh awesome!
[413] On this we definitely agree. They need to find someone to slot into the 5th hole, or bite the bullet and move Hughes into the rotation (or try, egads, to find a reliever or two to replace him in the BP).
I probably shouldn't care about this game anymore, but why swing 1-0 when you are down 5?
[418] It really was.
HAH AH AH AA HA H AH AH AH AHA !!!!
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!
[417] yeah, my grandpa loved beer, too. but he fancied himself an "aristocrat" and liked martini's. he used to drink scotch (dewar's) in the winter, on ice. when i was a little boy, he'd let me drink the "scotch water" at the end, when the ice melted...
[410] and there's your A-Rod gaffe...
rally? what? thanks arod.
[413] Please don't give this man carte blanche to find "a pitcher"
He sucks at it.
horrible baserunning - check
We're going to get swept by Boston.
This really isn't funny.
OK, the Yankees have done everything worng in this game. Girardi had better rip up the clubhouse because this isn't a loss...it's an embarrassing effort. The Yankees have simply not taken these two games seriously.
[415] Scotch is alright, but I don't really have an appreciation. I like the smell of Scotch, but when it comes to flavor, I prefer the sweetness of bourbon, or even the sourness of Tennessee whiskey, to the smokiness of Scotch.
On the other hand, I kill for a good grappa.
Nice...Matsui swinging at a 3-1 above his head. If they wanted to quit, why not walk off the field in the 7th?
[428] after he blasts them they should have to watch this mess on the chicago feed
[429] Mmmm, grappa!
Limoncello's delicious, too.
[431] Yes!
Picked a good game for a long time friend to be in town. Watching x-games crashes and the Yankees game side by side at the bar was a nice distration for how shitty a game this was. booooooooo
PS put down the scotch and bourbon and support wine from the Finger Lakes Region : D
So let's add this up:
By tomorrow, we'll learn that Damon is day to day with a busted shoulder that is balky for the rest of the year. Aceves is a mess. Bruney had his worst outing yet the last game against the Rays. Boston just got Victor Martinez for a guy who's mediocre at best, a guy who could be anything or nothing at all and junk, and we got Jerry Hairston Jr. We have no fifth starter and when Joba reaches the innings limit, what the heck do we have for a 4th starter?
Who knows what Gardner's deal is.
Awesome.
And there's a bunch of a-holes next to the broadcast mic who won't shut the heck up. And A Rod just got thrown out stretching down five runs.
[429] grappa = grandpa ?!
if so, i'd kill to have mine back. but i had him for 35 years and he was the GREATEST grandpa any kid could ever have. ever ever. there is a giant hole in my soul that will NEVER heal. ever ever...
[423] That's awesome. My dad used to "split a drink" with me when I was little-give me the melted ice-booze water at the bottom of the drink or the foam at the bottom of a beer. They'd haul him away now, but I'm not convinced that this sort of acculturation is wrong. Anyway...
Maybe Jorge can hit into a DP here.
[434] Like Bully Hill? "They didn't get his goat."
that's a wrap. poor effort tonight, let's hope for the split. To the Tivo for some Simpsons, thanks for having me y'all.
I really hope there is a very strong, angry reaction in this clubhouse, and not the shoulder shrugs that defined the early part of the season. If there is any acceptance of this kind of effort, the next week is going to be brutal.
[432] ah, it IS a drink. yeah, i know NOTHING about hard alcohol. i have a buddy who's a Jim Beam drinker (grumbling voice: gimme a Beam & Water, tall, hold the water!) - he used to try and teach me the differences between scotch, bourbon and whiskey. i never got it...
[435] Yup, that's about the size of it, all right.
[436] No, grappa is technically a brandy--it's really just firewater made by fermenting and distilling the pressed grapes and stems leftover from wine making. It's an Italian thing, but similar to French eau-de-vie or real German schnapps (like kirschwasser)
[440] enjoy! nice to see you, come back anytime! hope to see ya soon...
Sorry for being so negative tonight. My back hurts and now, after this game, my stomach hurts. The neighbors are undoubtedly not happy, as there was yelling. Just not good all around.
[444] waaaay above my head! either way, enjoy it! i'm enjoying a Sierra and gonna watch some old csi's w/ emily procter!!! : )
[442] :)
[437] my dad used to give me the cherry from his manhattans when i was a kid.
[435] got that side of things about covered.
[446] can't be as bad as my neighbors! or chyll will's!!! : ~
Well then.
[447] I'm going for a Magic Hat #9, myself. Time to drown my sorrows.
And I'm with William, I want to see rage and blood and fire-breathing defiance. I'd love it if Joe would throw something hard at the wall to make a point as he's fielding questions.
(I really would!)
[450] I meant there was yelling coming from my apartment. Loud, uncontrolled yelling. Unpleasant, something had a sharp stick stuck right in its belly howling. And I'm afraid that last night there may have been a few outbursts.
That sort of thing can lead to a letter from management.
So I've got that going for me.
I feel very badly for Joe Girardi coming home to Chicago, especially through these two crapfests by his players to start the series. While he gets to visit with his family and all, that also includes his father, who has Alzheimer's disease.
That has got to be incredibly difficult for him... or anyone else dealing with that, including his dad.
My grandmother had dementia during the last few years of her life, but she lived to be 92.
Hopefully, they have him on a routine of watching the games every day, so he can see his son and remember...
I just thought I'd mention that, because I think it's important in the grand scheme of things.
Losing baseball games is never as bad as that.
Free Kei Igawa?
My Cashman senses are tingling. I get this awful migraine whenever I sense we're about to start one of his awful blood from a stone experiments, and tonight's debacle did not help anything.
[456] Could it be worse than Mitre?
[453] i hear ya, man! i wish the management here would do a better job enforcing the quiet hours and such. i put in a formal complaint last night. i'm sure you're outbursts are tolerable (and understandable!) and it's also not too long-lasting or late. i have pure evil below me, though last nite was alright and tonight, so far, is too...
[455] There they go again.
[454] my grandpa made it to almost 97. he had EVERY one of his faculties! at the end, he waited for me to fly up to NY and said to me *exactly* what he needed to say. he knew everything and everyone that was going on around him. he was always forever, and i truly thought he'd be here for all eternity. i still can't fathom that he's not here. i just don't get...
[460] just don't get it...
[457] They went off a month ago when he first mentioned Mitre's name in Atlanta.
I'm just terrified at what he'll come up with, because he always finds the worst possible option and we then sit around for weeks on end pretending its working.
Also, Sidney Ponson is on schedule to take Mitre's next start, and so that just exacerbates things.
Here's Joe...
Girardi's most upset about the 0-2 hit in the seventh.
Re: Mitre: "Well, I'm not sure we have a lot of options at this point, so he's going to have to get it done for us."
[465] I know I post on this a lot...to the point of angering some other folks here...but it absolutely boggles my mind the sequence of events that took Hughes out of the rotation seemingly for good this year. Every time something happened, the first line was always something like "and he'll be the first one back in the rotation the next time there is an injury," and yet he kept getting passed over and passed over until we have reached a point where the manager claims in exasperated tones that they have "no other options."
Mind boggling.
River Ave Blues ran a statistical-analytical article a couple weeks back or so back, which showed that mediocre Hughes (assuming that he would continue to pitch at a 5+ ERA for the rest of the season) was STILL more valuable to the team than lights out Hughes (basically being un-hittable sub 1.00 ERA as a reliever), largely because of the total # of innings he had thrown as a starter. Obviously, the more he adds inning sin the pen, sooner or later his value as a reliever will outweigh his value as a starter. But their analysis also underscores how important innings are to the value of a pitcher. I would rather have Hughes going five or six every five games, than one inning a few times a week.
And especially when the alternative is Mitre and his 7.00+ ERA, or picking up another Ponson-type cast-off.
OK, I'm done now.
[466] Points very well taken.
Can someone explain why Girardi tried to pretend that Aceves was effective when it was obvious that he had nothing?
[466] That's not why you anger people...
[466] In fairness, I will retract part of this--
I cannot for the life of me find that damned article on River Ave Blue or RLYW...and I *know* I saw it someplace. Anyway, it's not fair for me to cite something without providing a link. Grrrr.
Jesus Montero continues to rock in Trenton...that's something to brighten up the evening!
cliff lee, brilliant in his Philthy debut. here's what i hate - his record now: 1-0. why in the goddamn fuck do his stats have to start all over???? esp. w/ interleague play in existence?!?! total bollocks!!!
[472] Still up, dude?
btw, [469] was sarcasm.
[474] No problem either way. I'm pretty sure I have the capacity to grate on folks. At least my wife seems to think so! ; )
Man, long & stinky game, trade deadline day, and Friday night seem to have combined to knock the wind out the Banter's sails. Things died off here in a hurry.
Should be some interesting discussions tomorrow.
[475] No, it was.
I wasn't expecting anything at the trading deadline because most their higher level pitching prospects are hurt, and whether people want to believe it or not, they actually appear to have a budget.
[476] I think you're right about the budget...and they have been at or near that budget for a couple of years now. Even with their big splash 400 MILLION DOLLAR OFFSEASON, most everyone seems to ignore that the payroll is almost exactly the same this year.
I'm still surprised they didn't make the obligatory move for an extra BP arm. Even if we forget about moving Hughes to the rotation, there has to be some concern about Bruney's and Albie's problems, and perhaps more importantly, Aceves' 'tired arm.'
Interesting. Sportsnet.ca poll: are you disappointed that Halladay was not traded.
26% Yes
745 No
I don't know Ricciardi should have made a deal or not, but folks up here would have been very disappointed at losing Doc. We'll see how this plays out in the offsa]eason and next year.
[474] oh good, thanks for clarifying!
[473] oh, hell yeah! still up, even now!!! it's super quiet downstairs too, so hopefully i'll get a full sleep! my gig is an hour and a half away tomorrow. hopefully, i'll speak with Cult on the phone, whilst in the car, and catch him up on all the goings on.
my dumbass thought we were only a .5 game up, but it's still 1.5, which is, at least, better. lets just hope we split this series. a split, is the best we can hope for the 2 game series w/ toronto right after this, with Doc throwing the first game, then it would really behoove us to just freaking win all 3 against the goddamn shit sox. fuck that entire organization. i really do wish they'd just be contracted. fuck the rivalry, fuck it all. i HATE every last detail about those motherfuckers.
[479] i had to open up my big mouth. noise started PAST 4:30 am!!! how does that even happen??? it's not terrible, so hopefully sleep is in the picture. here i go...
just caught up on the latest baseball news from mlb trade rumors, jayson stark, etc...
I'm going crazy. I don't understand who is in our rotation. If Hughes and Joba don't trade places once Joba hits his innings limit and we somehow make the playoffs, or by some miracle actually advance a round, who the heck is our starting rotation for a playoff series?
CC (who doesn't exactly have a blemish free postseason resume), AJ and then what?
Look at some of the other staffs we might face. Pettitte as a Game 3 against a legit stud? And then what in a Game 4?
I am baffled by this whole thing.
The fact that Bruney will probably not be fixable is devastating. He was so filthy before he got hurt.
And now Aceves has me worried. And Martinez makes the hypocredsox stronger, whether we like it or not.
Yuck..what a mess of a game to come home and read about, kind of glad I missed it..a day spent out wandering Tokyo sure beats losing to the ChiSox and listening to Hawk Harrleson for ecen one inning! We'll get 'em tomorrow, Let's Go Yankees!! And welcome to the new Banterites!
Sweet Baby Jayzuz, what the hell is going on in Cleveland?? They gave up Victor Martinez and didn't get back either Bucholz OR Daniel Bard??? And they gave away Cliff Lee when he was reasonably signed for next year!!
[466] Fyi, I don't mind that you discuss it, it is the tone and repetitiveness that bugs. Particularly when you imply that anyone who disagree with you must be a complete idiot. I haven't seen River Ave Blues analysis but I'd be skeptical that a large quantity of low leverage innings would be better than the high leverage innings he has been throwing in. Particularly when you consider replacement values. There is no question that in a vacuum a starting pitcher is considered more valuable (though I think the metrics do a poor job of measuring reliever value), but this team doesn't operate in a vacuum. I'll check it out when I get home. On the road right now...
[484] See [470].
Keep in mind that not all of his relief innings have been high leverage (though many have), and not all starter innings are low leverage (though many are).
Your reference to replacement value is intriguing, and I have thought about this a good deal lately. The common assumption seems to be that it is 1) easy to find a mediocre #5 starter and 2) hard to find a great late inning guy.
Yet I think this season has shown just how hard it is to find even a subpar #5 guy (Hughes had been the best of the lot by far, and now apparently there are no other options to Mitre). As for the replacement level for a late inning reliever, I would counter that 1] the worth of teh 8th inning guy is greatly overvalued, and 2] even Wang pitched well in relief (Super-small-sample size). It is far, far easier to mix and match relievers and play the hot hand and stumble on this year's version Brian Bruney 2008, than it is to find a solid starting pitcher.
I'm pretty certain that much of Hughes' value as a reliver can be replaced (plus, really, he's not going to continue t have the crazy success he's had so far...his last two outings have been difficult.
Anyway, we'll see!