Driving home today, listening to Francesa on the radio. Where do they get these people who call in? Callers asking why he didn't pitch Pettite on his throw day in relief? Why didn't Mo come in in the seventh and pitch the last three innings? Start Hairston or Gardner over Swisher? (Why not trade him back for Betimet, or maybe start Gardner or Hairston or Cervelli over Teixeira, he's hitting worse than Swish).
These guys are funnier than Richard and he was as someone said a "Funny Mother*&^%$#".
[0] I love Richard Pryor, all-time master! Such a shame his film output was so shabby..same with Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, etc etc..why can't great standups make great films?
[4] Because they get to act, not to write. Most of the time the writting is shit, and they depend on comedian marquee names to sell the movie.
There have been some good movies written for Robin Williams and Jim Carey, where they showed both excellent acting and comedic skills. Dan Aykroyd has been in some ggod movies (Driving Miss Daisy, Pearl Harbor, My Girl), I think Pryor would have been a fine dramatic actor. Jersey Girl had a decent role for George Carlin.
[4] I've heard this discussion before; stand-up is often a series of scripted vignettes on a subject of the comic's interest, often influenced by the comic's personality. Whereas movies are (typically) drafted stories with arcs in plot and character, so often the actor's personality is not a factor unless the character was tailored for that particular actor. This is often counter-intuitive to a comic's objective (make the audience laugh/think) and often doesn't utilize the comic's tools in stirring up an immediate response. Could you imagine sitting through a Seinfeld monologue for two hours and waiting until the end to laugh? That's what often happens with stand-up comedians who star in movies. Unless the movie and the character appeals to the comic's strengths and unless that comedian has actual acting talent (apples and oranges, but not necessarily mutually exclusive), the results are generally awkward at best.
48 hours was a damn fine movie. I think they all had some decent movies. But there are lazy producers out there and some times they think, as long as this guy is in it, people will come to see it. It's tough for these guys to turn down a big check for the sake of artistic integrity, hell I wouldn't turn down "Beverly Hills Cop 3" for the money they paid Murphy or less. Eventually the public no longer associates these guys with a good movie and the studios stop throwing money at them. Sometimes it's too late to come back.
Evenso I think we sell these guys short, if Eddie Murphy never made another movie after Trading Places he had a brilliant career. Some people never even make one movie that good. Name a movie that George Clooney or Angelina Jolie was in that was in that class.
I wish Girardi would pitch Rivera in the 7th to get the team out of a jam and the 8th, but not the 9th, but for whatever incomprehensible reason, no manager does that.
[8]O Brother, Where Art Thou received high praise, but time will tell if it's lasting. Besides which, neither of them started as stand-up comedians. It's not to say at all that comedians are lacking in acting talent; Richard superbly brought to life characters on stage during his routines, and he wasn't really as bad an actor as people might think. Neither is Eddie, honestly. Like OYF implied, if their film roles were lacking it was often because they were not part of the writing process and were victimized by inferior scripts; though occasionally poor choices were made (ahem, Pluto Nash)...
48 Hours was an example of a story and role that appealed to the comedian/actor's strengths; his personality and ability to improvise (which became most apparent in Beverly Hills Cop). Harlem Nights and Coming To Americawere underrated as far as I'm concerned...
[9] I agree entirely, but it will be years and years before some manager breaks out of the "my best reliever is the closer™", and if he's not immediately successful...
Btw, I am neurotically angry about this but Rob Neyer's blog has gotten worse and worse. From his blatant Red Sox worship to endless digs at the Yankees, his "Sweet Spot" blog has really declined..he just doesn't provide any interesting analysis anymore, and the anti-Yankee bits are tedious and annoying.
[13] Don't torture yourself with crap like that, Jazz. Writers with greater visibility don't necessarily make good writers, it just means they have a bigger notebook to write on, and sometimes that turns out to be more of a curse than anything else.
For example, when I begin making animated cartoons, you'd think I'd want them to appear as part of a Saturday morning lineup on a big network, or on networks devoted to cartoons like Nick or Cartoon Network. Kevin Smith talked about wishing he had never chosen to go with the "brass ring" represented by the networks as opposed to cable networks like HBO when he was pitching the animated series version of Clerks because of the restrictions that they placed on his content, and the lack of authority over his own creation. Ultimately, the networks canceled the series, like they often do with shows with whom they totally misjudged the core audience... just because it's a cartoon does not mean it's for little kids! Imagine trying to pitch prime Loony Toons or Tom & Jerry to a TV exec today!
I mean, even A Charlie Brown Christmas had to overcome a lot of controversy in its first run; the main issue of course being Linus' speech implying religious overtones that were never so firm in a popular cartoon before; between the networks, the sponsors and his own production studio, only Schulz had conviction and full confidence in it when it was first aired. Were it not for him alone at the moment of truth, we'd likely never have ever seen Peanuts in animation, and think about the implications of that television moment thereafter.
Ah. Well, I don't know if I can bear to watch tomorrow. After the vitriol of the last game thread, I'm a bit turned off by the scrutiny paid to every single move the team makes and doesn't make. Losing reminds you that when you watch on TV, you cannot hit or catch the ball for the player, you can't run the bases for him and you can't choose when to bring in a reliever or send in a pinch hitter or runner. You're watching shadows. And for me to get so tied up emotionally about something I have no control over is unhealthy and irrational, no matter how much we compensate by crunching numbers. Oh, I'll be delirious when we win the series, but I can't die for something that's supposed to be entertainment, not when the human element is processed into gov'mt cheese.
Funny, I've always thought that (and wondered why it was) Eddie Murphy was much better in movies (and SNL) than in stand-up, while Pryor was infinitely better in stand-up than movies.
I don't think Eddie Murphy was a particularly good stand-up comic. I know, he was a successful one, so maybe it's just my taste in comedy. Whereas Rich was the best who ever lived, or anyway the best I've ever seen.
[16] His first album, forgot the name, is fantastic. The storytelling and charactesr, are at the top of the game. Anyone's game. Ice cream, His alcoholic uncle. It is splendid. His second album, Delirious (?) got a little rough, trying to channel Foxx and Pryor, but not as good...'cause the dude is middle class through add through...but still funny though
[13] I think you're being way too sensitive. I keep hearing my fellow Yankee fans talk about his horrible bias every time he discusses the Yanks, then I read the piece and it's totally innocuous, as this one was. What did he say that wasn't said a dozen times in threads on this blog? Must every piece about the Yankees be a fawning, rah-rah non-analysis?
Is Neyer a Yankee fan? No, this I can directly confirm. I mean, hey, the guy grew up rooting for the 1970s KC Royals. Does Neyer respect the Yankee team and Brian Cashman? Yes.
As long as the Yankees are the team with the highest payroll and winning year after year, they're going to take some shots. So what?
I think that Pryor was the superior actor to Murphy but Murphy was the better movie star. Pryor was terrific in his small role in Lady Sings the Blues and he was awesome in Blue Collar. But he was too out of control to have a great movie career.
Murphy had that glittery early success--he was like a rock star. 48 Hours, Trading Places, Beverly Hills Cop. A terrific mimic too, and the good looks. I don't think he was a great stand up. He didn't do it long enough.
And Carlin was never great in a movie. Did a lot of TV back in the 60s but he really was a creature of his genre--stand up.
Robin Williams did become a good actor. Hmmm. Let me think about who else....
[20] I think if he'd wanted to, Cosby could have become a good actor. He was fine on I Spy and good in some basically forgettable stuff like Mother, Jugs & Speed.
I agree that Pryor was superior as an actor to Murphy - he was able to show a lot more depth on screen.
How has everyone missed Steve Martin and Albert Brooks? I'd say they made the transition better than anyone.
Is Robin Williams a good actor? I go back and forth on this. His acting mostly seems to be acting insane (a la Jonathan Winters) or staring misty-eyed (what my wife calls the "one expression school of acting).
Redd was legendary in the chitlin circuit, like Moms Mabley and Pigmeat Markham, both of whom influenced Richard Pryor, the Michael Jordan of stand-up comedy as far as I'm concerned. My favorite and perhaps the most popular of Redd's stand-up routines were the Confucius riffs because they were probably the most accessible of his blue material.
I agree with Steve Martin and Albert Brooks as probably the most realized actors who were successful stand-up comedians beforehand, and that Eddie didn't hit his potential before he became a superstar actor. Of most recent vintage, I certainly would be remiss not to mention the late and great Bernie Mac. Chris Rock I put above Eddie as a comedian, but just a level below as an actor because he hasn't approached the dramatic roles that Eddie has (who nearly won an Oscar in a dramatic role just last season).
Driving home today, listening to Francesa on the radio. Where do they get these people who call in? Callers asking why he didn't pitch Pettite on his throw day in relief? Why didn't Mo come in in the seventh and pitch the last three innings? Start Hairston or Gardner over Swisher? (Why not trade him back for Betimet, or maybe start Gardner or Hairston or Cervelli over Teixeira, he's hitting worse than Swish).
These guys are funnier than Richard and he was as someone said a "Funny Mother*&^%$#".
It's brilliant and tragic that the things Richard joked about then are still strongly relevant today :|
I don't think I heard that album until I was in college. It had a huge impact on me. I listened to it over and over one summer.
[0] I love Richard Pryor, all-time master! Such a shame his film output was so shabby..same with Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, etc etc..why can't great standups make great films?
i *think* Rickey used to check into hotels under the alias "Richard Pryor" !!!
[4] Because they get to act, not to write. Most of the time the writting is shit, and they depend on comedian marquee names to sell the movie.
There have been some good movies written for Robin Williams and Jim Carey, where they showed both excellent acting and comedic skills. Dan Aykroyd has been in some ggod movies (Driving Miss Daisy, Pearl Harbor, My Girl), I think Pryor would have been a fine dramatic actor. Jersey Girl had a decent role for George Carlin.
[4] I've heard this discussion before; stand-up is often a series of scripted vignettes on a subject of the comic's interest, often influenced by the comic's personality. Whereas movies are (typically) drafted stories with arcs in plot and character, so often the actor's personality is not a factor unless the character was tailored for that particular actor. This is often counter-intuitive to a comic's objective (make the audience laugh/think) and often doesn't utilize the comic's tools in stirring up an immediate response. Could you imagine sitting through a Seinfeld monologue for two hours and waiting until the end to laugh? That's what often happens with stand-up comedians who star in movies. Unless the movie and the character appeals to the comic's strengths and unless that comedian has actual acting talent (apples and oranges, but not necessarily mutually exclusive), the results are generally awkward at best.
I know Scott Long could articulate this better...
48 hours was a damn fine movie. I think they all had some decent movies. But there are lazy producers out there and some times they think, as long as this guy is in it, people will come to see it. It's tough for these guys to turn down a big check for the sake of artistic integrity, hell I wouldn't turn down "Beverly Hills Cop 3" for the money they paid Murphy or less. Eventually the public no longer associates these guys with a good movie and the studios stop throwing money at them. Sometimes it's too late to come back.
Evenso I think we sell these guys short, if Eddie Murphy never made another movie after Trading Places he had a brilliant career. Some people never even make one movie that good. Name a movie that George Clooney or Angelina Jolie was in that was in that class.
I wish Girardi would pitch Rivera in the 7th to get the team out of a jam and the 8th, but not the 9th, but for whatever incomprehensible reason, no manager does that.
[8] O Brother, Where Art Thou received high praise, but time will tell if it's lasting. Besides which, neither of them started as stand-up comedians. It's not to say at all that comedians are lacking in acting talent; Richard superbly brought to life characters on stage during his routines, and he wasn't really as bad an actor as people might think. Neither is Eddie, honestly. Like OYF implied, if their film roles were lacking it was often because they were not part of the writing process and were victimized by inferior scripts; though occasionally poor choices were made (ahem, Pluto Nash)...
48 Hours was an example of a story and role that appealed to the comedian/actor's strengths; his personality and ability to improvise (which became most apparent in Beverly Hills Cop). Harlem Nights and Coming To Americawere underrated as far as I'm concerned...
[9] I agree entirely, but it will be years and years before some manager breaks out of the "my best reliever is the closer™", and if he's not immediately successful...
why can’t great standups make great films?
Any objections to his personal life aside, Woody Allen has made some very good movies.
Great film chat people, thanks!
Btw, I am neurotically angry about this but Rob Neyer's blog has gotten worse and worse. From his blatant Red Sox worship to endless digs at the Yankees, his "Sweet Spot" blog has really declined..he just doesn't provide any interesting analysis anymore, and the anti-Yankee bits are tedious and annoying.
[13] Don't torture yourself with crap like that, Jazz. Writers with greater visibility don't necessarily make good writers, it just means they have a bigger notebook to write on, and sometimes that turns out to be more of a curse than anything else.
For example, when I begin making animated cartoons, you'd think I'd want them to appear as part of a Saturday morning lineup on a big network, or on networks devoted to cartoons like Nick or Cartoon Network. Kevin Smith talked about wishing he had never chosen to go with the "brass ring" represented by the networks as opposed to cable networks like HBO when he was pitching the animated series version of Clerks because of the restrictions that they placed on his content, and the lack of authority over his own creation. Ultimately, the networks canceled the series, like they often do with shows with whom they totally misjudged the core audience... just because it's a cartoon does not mean it's for little kids! Imagine trying to pitch prime Loony Toons or Tom & Jerry to a TV exec today!
I mean, even A Charlie Brown Christmas had to overcome a lot of controversy in its first run; the main issue of course being Linus' speech implying religious overtones that were never so firm in a popular cartoon before; between the networks, the sponsors and his own production studio, only Schulz had conviction and full confidence in it when it was first aired. Were it not for him alone at the moment of truth, we'd likely never have ever seen Peanuts in animation, and think about the implications of that television moment thereafter.
Ah. Well, I don't know if I can bear to watch tomorrow. After the vitriol of the last game thread, I'm a bit turned off by the scrutiny paid to every single move the team makes and doesn't make. Losing reminds you that when you watch on TV, you cannot hit or catch the ball for the player, you can't run the bases for him and you can't choose when to bring in a reliever or send in a pinch hitter or runner. You're watching shadows. And for me to get so tied up emotionally about something I have no control over is unhealthy and irrational, no matter how much we compensate by crunching numbers. Oh, I'll be delirious when we win the series, but I can't die for something that's supposed to be entertainment, not when the human element is processed into gov'mt cheese.
[13] couldn't have said it better! i *just* read his latest entry and was thinking the exact same thing. it's a shame...
Funny, I've always thought that (and wondered why it was) Eddie Murphy was much better in movies (and SNL) than in stand-up, while Pryor was infinitely better in stand-up than movies.
I don't think Eddie Murphy was a particularly good stand-up comic. I know, he was a successful one, so maybe it's just my taste in comedy. Whereas Rich was the best who ever lived, or anyway the best I've ever seen.
[16] His first album, forgot the name, is fantastic. The storytelling and charactesr, are at the top of the game. Anyone's game. Ice cream, His alcoholic uncle. It is splendid. His second album, Delirious (?) got a little rough, trying to channel Foxx and Pryor, but not as good...'cause the dude is middle class through add through...but still funny though
I thought Richard was pretty funny in Silver Streak with Gene Wylder. Pryor along with Carlin are the most talented standup comedians of my lifetime.
[13] I think you're being way too sensitive. I keep hearing my fellow Yankee fans talk about his horrible bias every time he discusses the Yanks, then I read the piece and it's totally innocuous, as this one was. What did he say that wasn't said a dozen times in threads on this blog? Must every piece about the Yankees be a fawning, rah-rah non-analysis?
Is Neyer a Yankee fan? No, this I can directly confirm. I mean, hey, the guy grew up rooting for the 1970s KC Royals. Does Neyer respect the Yankee team and Brian Cashman? Yes.
As long as the Yankees are the team with the highest payroll and winning year after year, they're going to take some shots. So what?
I think that Pryor was the superior actor to Murphy but Murphy was the better movie star. Pryor was terrific in his small role in Lady Sings the Blues and he was awesome in Blue Collar. But he was too out of control to have a great movie career.
Murphy had that glittery early success--he was like a rock star. 48 Hours, Trading Places, Beverly Hills Cop. A terrific mimic too, and the good looks. I don't think he was a great stand up. He didn't do it long enough.
And Carlin was never great in a movie. Did a lot of TV back in the 60s but he really was a creature of his genre--stand up.
Robin Williams did become a good actor. Hmmm. Let me think about who else....
[20] I think if he'd wanted to, Cosby could have become a good actor. He was fine on I Spy and good in some basically forgettable stuff like Mother, Jugs & Speed.
I agree that Pryor was superior as an actor to Murphy - he was able to show a lot more depth on screen.
How has everyone missed Steve Martin and Albert Brooks? I'd say they made the transition better than anyone.
What about Redd Fox? I never saw his stand up act, but he was reputed to be great, and he was terrific in "Sanford and Son."
Is Robin Williams a good actor? I go back and forth on this. His acting mostly seems to be acting insane (a la Jonathan Winters) or staring misty-eyed (what my wife calls the "one expression school of acting).
[23] I thought he was good in "Awakenings," but his act has not aged well.
Redd was legendary in the chitlin circuit, like Moms Mabley and Pigmeat Markham, both of whom influenced Richard Pryor, the Michael Jordan of stand-up comedy as far as I'm concerned. My favorite and perhaps the most popular of Redd's stand-up routines were the Confucius riffs because they were probably the most accessible of his blue material.
I agree with Steve Martin and Albert Brooks as probably the most realized actors who were successful stand-up comedians beforehand, and that Eddie didn't hit his potential before he became a superstar actor. Of most recent vintage, I certainly would be remiss not to mention the late and great Bernie Mac. Chris Rock I put above Eddie as a comedian, but just a level below as an actor because he hasn't approached the dramatic roles that Eddie has (who nearly won an Oscar in a dramatic role just last season).