So Joba hasn't been the same since the injury in Texas . . . hmm. The truth, or Cashman putting it out there to stop all the "make Joba a starter" talk?
[4] i think he has spent the winter trying to trade him, realized he no longer has any trade value, and has now let this out so that the matter can be put to rest.
Some interesting admissions, but nothing groundbreaking. However, I have been a little bothered by Cashman's attitude lately. From his comments about Jeter to the tone at the Soriano conference to the number of candid interviews he has given over the past few months, it almost seems as if he is more concerned with establishing a legacy than simply being GM of the Yankees. I've always been a big fan of Cashman, but his comments do make me wonder if he would rather be somewhere else.
5) I have a hard time believing no team would be interested in Joba's arm. He can still chuck it. Hell, what did Farnswacker just sign for? Now maybe Cash couldn't get what he wanted for Joba's, but that's no reason to bring up an old injury, say the guy hasnt been the same since, thereby diminishing his trade value, and confidence. Even if he's speaking the truth, Cash is talking like a fool these days, and he's not helping the team with his frankness.
8) maybe what Joba's is is nobody's fault. Maybe he's just a flash in the pan reliever. Maybe he's a better option than Mitre. Whatever he is, or I'd going to be, Cashman should not be talking about his past injuries, and suggesting he's damaged goods.
I've mostly supported Cash over the years. I think he's mostly done a good job. But it's time for him to either remember what his job is, or move on.
[8] Whoever had the brilliant idea to dump him back in the bullpen in 2010. He should have been sent back to the minors to get experience.
[3] et al - I don't think Joba had any trade value to begin with, so I have no issue with Cashman's comments. He's frustrated, and he's venting some. I also have no problem with that.
[12] there's a fine line between venting some, and acting like a self-destructive brat, and in my view Cash has crossed to the wrong side of that line.
6), et al: Yep...I'm getting that Cashman-is-gonna-give-the-owners-the-finger-and-leave feeling.
12) I can't believe that Joba has no trade value, given the perceived thinness of pitching in the league.
1) Even if Joba hasn't been the same since his injury, I think that Cashman still sidesteps the issue: is Joba more valuable as a starter than as a reliever, especially (now) a glorified middle reliever? Now I realize that the SEVENTH INNING is the most important inning of the game, but in almost all circumstances he would be more valuable as a #4 or #5 starter.
Then again, he never will be a starter, and not because he got injured a couple years ago, but because the organization made no real commitment to *develop* him as a starter. They frittered away his option years and refused to send him to AAA and jerked him between the pen and rotation with seemingly (in hindsight, in my view) no real plan, and set him up to "fail" in a bogus spring training "competition."
And the organization---or at the GM---is hiding behind the injury in Texas. Maybe there is some truth to this, maybe not. In any case, it's not the whole story even if it is the narrative [4)].
[10] I kind of agree with you...Joba seems to be fading as quickly as he emerged. Joba was a late bloomer, and sadly, those are the kind that seem to wilt fastest.
Is Joba the same guy as before that night in Texas?
Hell, no.
His FB velocity *is* down and more importantly, is much more inconsistent than before.
To add to that, Joba doesn't appear (from reports) to be the most intelligent or dedicated pitcher in the world.
However, Joba did enough in 2009 before hitting his innings high and the imposition of the Joba Rules 2.0, to warrant another chance at a spot in the starting rotation, unless the Yankees have well-founded fears of his physical inability to handle the workload of being a starting pitcher.
Joba hit his previous innings high on August 6th, 2009 (which, of course, triggered the Joba Rules 2.0). Here are his season stats through that date:
8-2 115.2IP 111HA 3.73ERA .771OPSa 57W 102K
Not great (especially with 10 un-earned runs) but certainly good enough to warrant another chance, given the alternatives.
Joba hasn't been great as a starter, post injury, but I think the team has given up on him as one far, far too early, especially given the amount that they screwed around with him in late 2009.
So Joba hasn't been the same since the injury in Texas . . . hmm. The truth, or Cashman putting it out there to stop all the "make Joba a starter" talk?
I think Cashman has taken to smoking weed before speaking to the press.
[1] either way, this is now the official interpretation of events. got injured, tried to start him in 2009 and he failed that test in their eyes.
[3]
and in admitting this, has he damaged Joba's trade value (further)
[4] i think he has spent the winter trying to trade him, realized he no longer has any trade value, and has now let this out so that the matter can be put to rest.
Some interesting admissions, but nothing groundbreaking. However, I have been a little bothered by Cashman's attitude lately. From his comments about Jeter to the tone at the Soriano conference to the number of candid interviews he has given over the past few months, it almost seems as if he is more concerned with establishing a legacy than simply being GM of the Yankees. I've always been a big fan of Cashman, but his comments do make me wonder if he would rather be somewhere else.
5) I have a hard time believing no team would be interested in Joba's arm. He can still chuck it. Hell, what did Farnswacker just sign for? Now maybe Cash couldn't get what he wanted for Joba's, but that's no reason to bring up an old injury, say the guy hasnt been the same since, thereby diminishing his trade value, and confidence. Even if he's speaking the truth, Cash is talking like a fool these days, and he's not helping the team with his frankness.
Someone sure failed when it comes to Joba.
[8.] Yeah. Joba!
Just kidding.
What's up with Cashman? Any minute I expect him to go all Mad As Hell on us. I'm loving it. Refreshing. Stupid maybe, but refreshing.
8) maybe what Joba's is is nobody's fault. Maybe he's just a flash in the pan reliever. Maybe he's a better option than Mitre. Whatever he is, or I'd going to be, Cashman should not be talking about his past injuries, and suggesting he's damaged goods.
I've mostly supported Cash over the years. I think he's mostly done a good job. But it's time for him to either remember what his job is, or move on.
I can't type on this iPad thing. I could read before submitting, but what fun is that?
[8] Whoever had the brilliant idea to dump him back in the bullpen in 2010. He should have been sent back to the minors to get experience.
[3] et al - I don't think Joba had any trade value to begin with, so I have no issue with Cashman's comments. He's frustrated, and he's venting some. I also have no problem with that.
[12] there's a fine line between venting some, and acting like a self-destructive brat, and in my view Cash has crossed to the wrong side of that line.
11) I totally appreciate that: my own spalling (sic) and typography are bad enough without help from the touchpad!
6), et al: Yep...I'm getting that Cashman-is-gonna-give-the-owners-the-finger-and-leave feeling.
12) I can't believe that Joba has no trade value, given the perceived thinness of pitching in the league.
1) Even if Joba hasn't been the same since his injury, I think that Cashman still sidesteps the issue: is Joba more valuable as a starter than as a reliever, especially (now) a glorified middle reliever? Now I realize that the SEVENTH INNING is the most important inning of the game, but in almost all circumstances he would be more valuable as a #4 or #5 starter.
Then again, he never will be a starter, and not because he got injured a couple years ago, but because the organization made no real commitment to *develop* him as a starter. They frittered away his option years and refused to send him to AAA and jerked him between the pen and rotation with seemingly (in hindsight, in my view) no real plan, and set him up to "fail" in a bogus spring training "competition."
And the organization---or at the GM---is hiding behind the injury in Texas. Maybe there is some truth to this, maybe not. In any case, it's not the whole story even if it is the narrative [4)].
And somehow through all of this, Sergio F*cking Mitre is the last man standing. Amazing.
[10] I kind of agree with you...Joba seems to be fading as quickly as he emerged. Joba was a late bloomer, and sadly, those are the kind that seem to wilt fastest.
[16] Survival of the unluckiest!
[16] [18] only the unlucky survive!
[15] agree with everything you say there mp, especially about joba.
interesting that the most outspoken person in their contract year looks like it's going to be cashman.
Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this one.
Is Joba the same guy as before that night in Texas?
Hell, no.
His FB velocity *is* down and more importantly, is much more inconsistent than before.
To add to that, Joba doesn't appear (from reports) to be the most intelligent or dedicated pitcher in the world.
However, Joba did enough in 2009 before hitting his innings high and the imposition of the Joba Rules 2.0, to warrant another chance at a spot in the starting rotation, unless the Yankees have well-founded fears of his physical inability to handle the workload of being a starting pitcher.
Joba hit his previous innings high on August 6th, 2009 (which, of course, triggered the Joba Rules 2.0). Here are his season stats through that date:
8-2 115.2IP 111HA 3.73ERA .771OPSa 57W 102K
Not great (especially with 10 un-earned runs) but certainly good enough to warrant another chance, given the alternatives.
Joba hasn't been great as a starter, post injury, but I think the team has given up on him as one far, far too early, especially given the amount that they screwed around with him in late 2009.