Maybe, Alex. But Arod has been humiliated before and always stuck around and bounced back. What's different this time is not the humiliation, but the fact that he might be done as a hitter. In which case, do we want him around for the rest of his contract?

I don't think an organization should ever ruin a guy - so if that's happening I'm opposed. But I also don't think an organization needs to hold on to ruined players. Especially unloved ruined players.

I enjoy rooting for him and he's a terrific ballplayer in just about every single way. I hope that it all turns around for him starting today.

He won't start today. And you are right, the difference is that he is a singles hitter now so he's expendable.

[2] He doesn't have to start to do something to help the team.

3) True. Curious if he gets any burn. Hey, guy like Alex is good to keep around because he shields the other guys when they are messing up, right?

Honestly, if they trade him my Yankee fandom will take a serious hit. It reminds me of them not bringing back Reggie. A-Rod is still one of the better 3B in the majors, who are they going to replace him with??

The whole thing stinks on ice. The guy is a gamer, and by all accounts a fantastic teammate and a big brother to all the dudes from south of the border.

To do this to this man at this time is quite frankly unspeakable. It's Al Davis like. I was a huge Raider fan until Davis made it impossible for me to support the team (see: Marcus Allen)....but I hung on for a long time.

I am absolutely flabbergasted. Call me "old school," but The Boss would not have allowed this. He would have had a sit-down with A-Rod and he might have even fired Cashman and Girardi in the middle of the playoffs. [exaggerating for effect]

Anyway, I am sick. Worse than the Yogi affair. Worse than Dick Howser.

Bad karma for the Yanks, I think. Trade the guy if you want. Eat the contract and admit the mistake. Platoon him if you think it gives you a better shot to win. But batting Gritner in the ninth, down by a run instead of Arod just seems dumb.

Even Centaurs cry.

[5] I agree. I have been a death-do-us-part fan since 1971, when my dad took me to the House That Ruth Built. I was at the last game at the "old" Stadium and the first game at the "new (old) stadium." I was on the field and in the stands when my H.S. marching band played for opening day--the "Reggie Bar game" and opened the playoffs in '77 (or 78, I forget). But this situation is really trying my resolve.

I havealways wondered how and why my dad's sport fanaticism wavered so much as his age progressed. I think I am starting to understand it a little more now.

Even Centaurs cry.

Yes!

Alex, can we get some kind of petition going to LoHud or whoever that gets to the Yankee brass...something Bad News Bearsish?

LET HIM PLAY! LET HIM PLAY! LET HIM PLAY!

trading him really makes no sense. first, who is out there that they can replace him with that will produce more? second, he's coming back from an injured wrist so the dip in power this season is to be expected. and third, name one other player on the team who has hit in the post-season, save ibanez. getting rid of him (while continuing to pay most of his huge salary) would be cutting off our nose to spite our face. dumb.

[8] Yeah, man! I have never agreed with the whole "we root for laundry" thing. I cried when Reggie went to the Angels (I was 7, it's understandable) and always rooted for him to do well. I even root for the Dodgers so Mattingly can get a ring! (Unlikely with his small ball managerial obsessions.) A-Rod has been such a great player for the Yankees, an all time great. I care zero about the off the field stuff, guy is the second best player of my lifetime after Bonds. Yes, better than Pujols because of his speed and playing SS so many years.

Slumber time, GO GO CC tomorrow!

The word "scapegoat" comes to mind.........

Dang. Didn't Alex come back with no games in the minors? His timing is off, and there's no way to fix it before 4pm today, so sit him. But I think a spring training cures his ills. For the next couple of years.

Problem is the last couple of years of his contract. Unload him before he's a complete boat anchor whom no one wants or keep his glove?

i agree with your take alex. this is all part of the process of shipping him out. obviously he has struggles mightily against rhp through much of the season which has been magnified and exacerbated after he came back from his broken hand in particular in the playoffs. but the pinch hitting for him, the benching, and him not even getting a whiff of the game the two games he has been benched seem bigger than just sitting a guy who is struggling against rightys.
i don't want them to trade a-rod UNLESS it is really worth it, and by that i mean major financial relief (either in the form of getting under this stupid $189M that hal seems so hell bent on or using the money for something good) or getting something useful in return from the marlins or whomever - basically a red sox type deal.

I am going to boycott (although I may sneak a peak). I trust CC will deliver, but who else are we rooting for? C

BTW, back in the day, the fans were all over The Mick....worse than boos, the dude got punched in the face one year when fans were allowed on the field after the game.

I'd bet money Rodriguez is on this team come spring training.

17) I hope you are right.

They Shoot Centaurs, Don't They?

I am very politically naive, especially if I am personally involved. I just never see the writing on the wall. Is it there for ARod? Well, here are some thoughts why this whole thing may just be media fodder for EVERYBODY's whipping boy.

... I want ARod around, but considering the circumstances, I would bench him too. Chavy's OPS is 200(!!!) pts higher then ARod's against RHP. ARod IS slumping. ARod was out for 6 weeks, 5 weeks ago. It's not crazy to think his timing may be off. It may not be crazy to think his hand is healed, but not as strong or as conditioned to swing the bat as he was pre-injury. If this were just Player A and Players B, OF COURSE the LH batter would play.

... Based on the length of ARod's contract and the bonuses, it should be 1000% obvious that ARod was signed more for historical reasons then everyday player reasons. Do you believe that H&H REALLY thought ARod would still be elite at 40, 41 and 42? Did they really believe he would be a $20m player (4.5 WAR needed) in his 40's? But they did believe that the many milestones coming would fill seats and generate excitement. I mean, do you really want ARod to pass Willie Mays on the HR list wearing a Miami uniform? How about if/when he passes Babe Ruth? What uniform should he do that in?

After 2102. there was nobody more done, nobody more obviously in steep decline then Derek Jeter. For 3 months, he couldn't even get the ball out of the infield. But guess what? I guess in Baseball, looks can be deceiving. Is it crazy to think it's possible that ARod, a year younger, more talented, who is in GREAT shape and STILL works like a dog, can't come back next year? Based on seeing Jeter this year, can he have ANOTHER good year after this one? Can ARod?

... Financially, it doesn't make sense to trade ARod if the Yankees have to absorb more then half of his remaining $23m AAV. I believe ARod can easily average a 2.5 WAR over the next 5 years. I mean, do we really want to pay ARod $12m/yr to play for another team, and hunt around for another 3rd baseman for $11m/yr? And the ARod money still gets counted against the tax cap, so there is NO relief there.

... He is constantly bashed by all, yet he has been a very good teammate, and may have been the guy who pushed Robbie out of his dulldrums. I think every young player gains by being around Alex. He is a Baseball purist, a guy who loves and respects the game.

... Throught May, June and July, he averaged close to a .820 OPS and a .350 OBP. That's not terrible. Swish and Grandy posted numbers below expectations in the regular season, and sucked, against mostly RHP, in this post season. All they gone too? Considering the type of talent Robbie has, and the contract he is going to want, isn't he by FAR the biggest disappointment of the PS? Wanna look at his LOB? Considering what he will cost, and the DOWN years that will inevidently come with a long contract, is the choker gone too?

... Since 2009, a WS that ARod personally delivered, there has been NO controversy... except the typical stuff instigated by the media. He has matured. He is not a me first guy anymore. He cares about his team. He has learned from Derek. It could have been worse... and the guy has earned his Pinstripes.

I hope he isn't punished because H&H... even considering the historical perspective, gave ARod much more then they needed to, to get him to sign. If he was offered 8/$210m, would he really have turned it down? Hell, if they wanted to play hardball and let him shop around, they may have gotten him for less.

So all this money owed ARod is not his doing. And the money can't and won't be reclaimed. It's gone thanks to H&H.

It's a bad contract.
It's been somewhat disappointing from what I expected.

But he is still ARod. Historically rating in the Mickey Mantle category.

Mantle bastted .236 his last year. It was a bummer. Painful.

But we all still wanted to watch him play.
Just the chance of Greatness is exciting to watch.

Just the chance of Greatness is exciting to watch.

Exactly.

[20] And lastly.... when the Dodgers 'cleansed' Boston, they took on the vast majority of everyone's salary. It was honestly salary relief for Boston. But nobody is talking about that here. To get rid of ARod will actually cost money when you consider his replacment.

This guy did not rape any children.
He is having the same shitty PS, that 3 other younger and very talented players are having. I mean... it's a drag that ARod is doing so poorly, but this is really small sample size.

With all his mistakes in the media and perceptions from public opinion, Arod still provides leadership qualities. He will lead by example in Spring Training and, occasionally, on the field. The way he goes about his business, on the field, will help younger players learn "what it means to be a big leaguer." Arod's future PR mistakes, in NY, Miami, LA, or wherever, could show young teammates what not to do. Jeter, Rivera, Cano, Pettitte, need to exemplify "what it means to be a true Yankee."

(20) Yeah, I agree the chance of greatness is exciting to watch, and yes, I like ARod, and - in a more sensible world - would like to see him stick around until the end of his deal. BUT - as I said here yesterday, the drama surrounding him has become exhausting - more than a distraction. Given how he has been treated by the press, and the haters all these years, and given his recent demotion - I don't see how he would want to be here anymore. I'm starting to think it's time for a divorce. An expensive, painful divorce.
I didn't have any problem with ARod being benched for Ibanez, and I didn't have a problem with him being benched for a game, but sitting him for the duration of the series is unwarranted. I truly hope the Yankees are not trying to run him out of town this way. This is Red Sox style bullshit, and I don't want to see this organization stoop to that level. If you don't want him after this postseason - man up, and tell him to his face that you want a divorce. But don't play passive-aggressive games, plant stories in the press, etc. That's bullshit.

[21] I followed Mantle his last seasons. I was in my preteens. By some bizarre miracle of fate, I was at the game when he hit #500.

Granted, there was little else to root for with the Yankees of those days, but the love and appreciation of the Mick was electric.

Mantle, mostly because both wheels were really busted, really played old. He played 1st base (pre DH) not very well. And his last 2 years, he was not in the lineup a lot of the time.

So I would watch a game on TV, even when Mickey was out.
And then, late in the game, with a very still audience of 15,000 at the game, you could hear a small chear go up.... because someone spotted Mickey in the dugout getting a bat.

And then the roar out of nowhere, when Mickey hobbled out to the ondeck circle.

And then, when the batter made his out, the volumn knob just kept turning as Mantle made his way to the plate, culminating in a standing ovation, and life from the fans that only happened in this moment.

My friend Phil and I would go to a game just on the hope that Mickey was healthy enough to have 1 PH AB. We waited the whole game for it. And that's because....

Just the chance of Greatness is exciting to watch.

If only the papers would print leaked stories about Randy Levine flirting with a hot dog vendor while the City of New York loses $43 million in rent payments from the bankrupt Yankee parking garages.

The problem with getting rid of A-Rod is the one OYF raised: they will still have to pay him, and that money counts against the luxury tax limit. Unless the Steinbrenners have been lying about the "we'll be under $189M by 2014!" thing, I don't see how its possible. You can't pay 50% of A-Rod salary and afford a competent free agent 3B (if there was one available) and get under $189M. You can't pay 50% of A-Rod's salary and take on another team's albatross contract and hope they give you a young, major-league ready 3B, and get under $189M.

Though Ca$hninja has surprised us all before. I'm with the Hawk [17] - A-Rod is still here in the spring.

[26] hopefully randy gets his soon.

if we want to get other dominoes in the picture, i wonder if the yankees want to use this as the opportunity to move jeter off short to 3rd, especially given his broken ankle, and have nunez take over at ss. i get the sense they want to integrate nunez in the mix someway.

[27] Well, I can think of one option the Yanks have, but does anyone here really think a Chavez/Nune6 platoon would make the Yanks better than just playing A-Rod?

O CAPTAIN! my Captain! I'm fearful Swisher's done;
Teixera's weather'd every out, the prize just can't be won;
Cano's bat isn't here, Grandy's struck out all year, & even Sterling's not exulting,
While follow eyes the steady bench, where Arod's grim and glaring:

But O heart! heart! heart!
O the bleeding drops of red,
Where on the infield my Captain lies,
Fallen cold with a broken leg.

[24] "the drama surrounding him has become exhausting - more than a distraction"
this may be true, but ARod ain't causing it! This is 100% media driven.

"... and given his recent demotion"
This sounds like media speak. DEMOTION? You mean sitting him for TWO MUST WIN OR IT'S OVER games, and playing instead a guy who is a better Defender and has a FAR, FAR better OPS?
Again... any other situation for any other slumping player sitting would get one line from the announcer, and that's it. But for ARod..... HE'S BEING DEMOTED.

".... An expensive, painful divorce."
I don't know if you've been there, but I have. Expensive, painful divorces, like war, should be an absolute last choice, and not something to relish.

If there was absolutely NO media on this, the last 3 days, would you feel that ARod is truly at the end of his rope?

Would the Yankee's sacrifice this PS to send ARod a 'message'????
Grandy sat a game.
Swisher has sat a game.
And they are BOTH LH bats!
Is that a message?

Or just Girardi trying to put today's best lineup on the field?

Even if you wanted to sit Cano... you would have to replace him with RH hitting Nix or Nunez. That just doesn't make sense.

And it for some reason they did sit Robbie....
Would it be a Demotion?
Would they be driving him out of town?

All of us here know what ARod is, and isn't.
We are know, like Jeter, he could be in decline, or still have gas left in the tank.

Do we really need to be influenced by a rabid media?

29) I think the people who want to run ARod out of town don't care if that platoon is worse than playing ARod. The people who want to run ARod out of town still think Brosius, and Boone were better because of their October clutchiness. The people who want to run ARod out of town have the baseball sense of the old Abbott and Costello skit. "I Don't Know." "Third base!"
I can't take it anymore.

While it's easy to run after the developing narrative, I don't see any reason why what's going on here in Detroit MUST lead to his leaving the team.

There are excellent reasons for him not to play right now against right handed pitching, as have been well-listed above. Ibanez should be in there against all righties.

Ibanez is a terrible fielder and the games have been all razor thin. I think you bolster OF defense, which means he has to DH. So then it's just a question of Chavez or Arod. And this season's stats indicate Arod can't hit righties as well as Chavez.

I am not going to blame Girardi whichever way he goes, since w/o abandoning Arod's sinking ship, the Yanks would have lost to Baltimore.

Now move ahead to next year, and these factors may not exist anymore. Give Alex another chance to regain his health with rest and his form with spring training and practice.

The Yankees can, and probably should view this as "Alex is broken right now." And next year he can be fixed. That's not only the best view for the Yanks for keeping him, but also for trading him, so that they don't make a desperate reactionary move that doesn't dump enough salary to have it be helpful to them.

31) look I'll sign the petition to keep ARod here, but I think we've reached the "irreconcilable differences" portion of the program. The best interests of the team (keeping ARod?) will most likely be outweighed by personal issues at this point, that's all I'm saying. I'm also saying I'm tired of defending ARod, and can't see why he would want to be here anymore.

[29] I love having Chavez on the team. However, he is a very injury prone 34 yr old. His .844 OPS this year (mostly against RHP) was GREAT... but last year his OPS was .676.

So I would certainly resign him next year for $2m-ish, but he is still a bench player, not the more used piece of a platoon. He may post a .844 OPS again, he may post a .676 OPS again. I don't think he's a guy we want to hang our hats on.

Nunez will play more, but it will be at SS, to keep Jeter rested.

[34] What personal issues? What are you defending him on? Did you see his YES interview? The guy is solid. He has no issues (above and beyond anyone else).

Did he have 'personal issues' in September, when we were all waiting for him to come off the DL?.
Did he have 'personal issues' the last game of the season when he went 2 for 3, with 2 walks and 2 RS?

Just another opinion:
On Trading Alex Rodriguez
http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/2012/10/on-trading-alex-rodriguez-46024

36) I don't see how you can think ARod is cool with being benched, and is not taking it personally.

Ultimately, it comes down to who gives you the best chance of winning, and I don't see how Chavez does that. Also, if the Yankees want to dump Arod in the offseason, fine, but who is playing third. Even with his injuries and significant decline, Arod has been one of the most productive at what has become a relatively weak position. If the Yankees are going to eat all of that money for nothing, they'd better be willing to spend even more.

Finally, I don't think the 2007 contract extension was a mistake. I've said this time and again, but even knowing what I do now, I would sign it again because Arod's 2009 postseason is one of my fondest memories of a Yankee fan...one easily worth the money they are paying him.

Well, I think that Alex is gone. His benching followed by "insiders" confirming the Post story is typical George Steinbrenner treatment of a disposable player. The only thing missing is George's bellowing and public insults. George may be gone, but the Yankee organization was made his image and is not going to change anytime soon.

The Yankees did not have to give Alex that huge contract, in fact, I think that was one of those who thought that they should have negotiated tougher or let him leave. But they were thinking dollar signs when he broke the home run record. If they really did know about his steroid use, then they were fools to do that deal, not because of any physical consequences, but because they should have anticipated that when it came out that his ability to generate revenue would decrease.

I enjoyed watching Alex hit at his peak and most importantly, he helped the Yankees win a World Series which earns him goodwill. However, I won't be crying over his departure.

33) Jon, Buster Olney--via Hardball Talk--echoes your common sense:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/18/thank-you-buster-olney/

[30] Cool poem!

To weigh in here. While they signed ARod to this extension and likely knew about his PED use, nobody could prove anything, and if they had known that this was all going to come out, they might not have had to add all these clauses for milestones.

Remember Bonds as he was passing the greats on the list, and he never even admitted to steroid use. And there was vitriol. Imagine what it will be like if ARod gets up into that group?

Let's also remember how he threw his cousin under the bus about his PED use and didn't take full responsibility. Remember Pettite's confession and Giambi's?

I agree that ARod is being rushed out of town, and the Yanks aren't sticking up for him at this point and they are trying to downgrade him to make it easier for fans to digest why they are getting rid of him, but they are also making it harder to get quality in return on a trade. It is also making it easier to get ARod to waive his no trade clause. You think ARod likes being booed every night?

Remember what Torre wrote about ARod? (paraphrasing) He worries more about how he looks than being a team player.

The real victims in this are the Detroit fans. Imagine having to hear and watch all this crap about ARod, while they are trying to enjoy winning over the Yankees? They keep showing closeups of ARod throughout the game, it is ridiculous.

ARod is not a villain and he is not a victim here either. He is going to go home to an olympic-size swimming pool filled with cash and cry himself to sleep over the boos and the vicious reports, but I think in time, he will get over it.

I'd love to be victims like the Tiger fans. 3-0 lead. That's some tasty victimhood.

LOL

I've been shocked at the way they've treated Alex; not the pinch-hit so much but the continuous shaming of him on so many levels.
The nonsense that Giradi is calling the shots on the lineup is just that - nonsense. Has anyone ever seen the GM come in to the press room before manager and give the reporters the lineup and tell them he made these decisions along w/Girardi and coaches?
When CC was asked what was the biggest lose (in terms of injuries) on the team this year - he said, A-Rod; Cashman said Mo.
This is not the 2003/4/5+ years when the team had a divided Jeter/ARod locker room. There are a lot of players in that clubhouse that look up to Alex - did you hear Raul when he was told to get ready to pinch-hit? The relationship Alex has w/Cano. Tex is tight w/Alex and he seems to be the De-facto leader now which should have been ARod's job once Jeter went down.
According to David Wells, Alex got angry and pleaded his case to Girardi but I don't think Girardi had the leeway to put him in the lineup. The mere fact that Alex's #'s were so good against Verlander this year - even Verlander was surprised he wasn't in the lineup. Chavez came in to back-up Alex not replace him and playing all these games in a row leads to a better chance that Chavez gets hurt. Yes, Chavez had hit a HR against him but it was an opposite field HR that just went out in the heat of summer.
This is a joke. And clearly it's making me angry because as Alex said, they are a better lineup w/him in it. He can steal a base (Chavez can't), he's a good, smart base-runner.
Look, I guess the team just wants to humiliate him and they're doing a good job of it. I think it's UGLY, it has hurt the team on the field and I also believe it has affected the rest of the team.
The nonsense w/the girl in the stands - we've all (or anyone that's gone to games) has seem a lot worse; I have no problem with it. Does anyone question the fact that the Yankees gave the Post that story? That's the only thing that makes 1 remember George close to his worst.
I'm really disappointed in management - I thought they were a classier group than this until the way they treated Jeter during his negotiations. I didn't care what they paid Jeter, I cared about them leaking the negotiations and trying to get fans to turn on him. This is just ugly.
And Nunez? I don't see how they're playing him behind CC who is a ground ball pitcher and needs those double-plays - if they do win tonight I hope to G-d they put Nix in behind Andy -- that's Andy's whole game. This is just our intro to Nunez as the new SS and though there wasn't a problem in the last game -- well, this is a different pitcher. We've all seen the difference between Giambi @ 1st and Tex @ 1st but @ least Jason hit some big home-runs...can you imagine a Nunez special (E) to Tex?
I can't, I'm really disappointed in the team and how they're handling things.

Life with A-Rod is like a Russian novel, it's long and confusing and in the end we all get hit by a train.

That said, play him today.

[44] I appreciate your passion on the subject, but in my opinion, the GM has very little influence on the lineup.

Girardi is trying to find a way to score runs, and it's fine to disagree with him on how to do that, but I can't understand the crowd that's convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Arod could hit a right hander better than Chavez right now. For the record, I would play Alex against lefties and softer throwing righties, but I'm not going to second guess a guy who goes with a strict platoon based on what we've seen so far.

Interesting stuff here:

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2012/10/18/if-he-hadn%E2%80%99t-struggled-he%E2%80%99s-in-there/

And here:

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2012/10/18/cashman-this-doesnt-shatter-my-beliefs/

I do think that Alex is the scapegoat for the Yankee failures this postseason. I think that Cano is far more at fault than Alex or any other hitter, but the Yankees won't bench Cano because they want to stay in his good graces until they give him a new contract.

Everyone keeps asking who will play third if ARod goes. Am I the only one who sees this as the golden opportunity for Jeter to play a few more years by moving over?

[47] I call BS on Cash's "short sample" comment on the offense. There is obviously something mental going on with Swisher and Cano, at least.

[49] see 28.

[50] Thanks, I guess I missed that one. Seems like such a great idea to me and would be one of the chief benefits of dumping ARod.

I don't see how moving Jeter to 3rd helps much. Yeah, there is less territory to cover, but he will stress the SS more. Also, Jeets has a very slow first step (part of his lack or range). And it IS a different position. He has played SS his whole life. He has never played 3rd. What maks people think that changing positions at his age will go smoothly.

Jeter has no range at SS. He almost has to fall on a ball to reach it. But he is otherwise a good SS. Great goimg back on popups, great coming in on grounders, and excellent cut off man. My guess is he can man the position for another 2 years without being much worse then he is now.

[52] i don't think it necessarily makes sense, i could see cashman wanting to do it though.

[47] ALL of those quotes come from 2 videos on the YES site; an ARod B4 Game#4 interview and a Cashman interview. I figured everyone had seen them.... maybe not.

In any event, I have not seen or heard anything that even smacks of dissing ARod. I don't believe the Yankees have any reason or motivation to do so. If they wanted to trade him, this garbage going on now would only devalue ARod, and cost the Yankees many millions.

Now if ARod were the only one sucking, I would be less sceptical. However, 3 guys who are younger and I expect to deliver more than ARod, are sucking just as bad... with some poor D thrown in to boot.
Swish, Grandy and especially Cano, have all had critical defensive lapses.

For me, all this stuff carries all the weight of Donald Trump's birther nonsense. Anyone can say anything these days.

And [40]
"Insiders" (unnamed)... like a janitor?
The NY Post saying something untrue or gossipy? Impossible. Everything is the Post and on the Internet is always true.
"A disposable player". ARod is now disposable?

And you actually want another human being to act like George did?
Were you around in the 70's and 80's? I mean, I had grown fond of the old man since he STOPPED making decisions and gave Cashman control. But the man was a lunatic, and did many nasty and horrible things.

George's passion for Winning should be emulated by other owners.
But his other behaviors are best never seen again.

[52] I agree with your assessment of Jeter, but I think it makes for third being the best possible position for him. And I think he's smart enough that the transition won't be too difficult for him. Plus, you have an opportunity to substantially increase your range at SS. I too see it being a popular idea with Yankee brass, mostly because it quiets the range criticism. But also because it allows "replacement" of ARod with a proven hitter and gives Nunez -- a guy they're looking for a spot for -- that one last chance to become a starter.

[54] I am calling the Yankees' treatment of Alex how I see it. IMO, the organization is mimicking George's treatment of player that it considers disposable. You can disagree with my interpretation of the Yankees' actions, but nowhere in my post did state that I agreed with it.

who would have believed that 2006 would have been a more satisfying series against the tigers?