I may be crazy but I'd like to see the Yanks sign Wang. I figure it would be a reasonable contract given the circumstances, and maybe it would work out. After all, two-time 19 game winner, etc etc. I'm not saying pencil him into the rotation today, but what if he's returned to form?

[0] I knew both Miller and Big Stein weren't going to make it, but I wanted to see at least one of them. I felt Miller deserved it most so I wanted to see him first. But yeah, a disgrace.

Stein? Dude, the guy was kicked out of baseball twice! He was a force in the game but not in Miller's league.

[3]

Putting Steinbrenner in will make the Pete Rose fans irate.

[3] Yeah he got kicked out, but my question there is - so? Is this the baseball hall of fame or the humanitarian hall of fame? That's why I think players like Roger Maris should be in, it's a hall of fame, not a hall of numbers and sugar and spice and everything nice. And Phil Rizzuto agrees with me, too.

5) Stop it. Should the fuggin San Diego chicken be in there too? Canseco? George was a criminal. I'm not saying that alone should keep him out but first ballot? More than Marvin? Nah.

Mark Reynolds is going to the Orioles ...

[2][5] A group to the HoF would be nice. My SABR chapter in Burlington does it every year. You may think differently after a visit. Cooperstown is not Canton. Its special.

[3] As for you, my friend, right on. The largest of all baseball g-ds is 42, for sure. Number 2 be either the Babe or Marvin Miller. Not sure where on the list Steiney lands, but, for right now, he ain't even close.

To answer the humanitarian question, go back to what he did to Dave Winfield. I know Pete Rose bet on baseball. What effect it had on the game, except to do one of the games big no nos, one instituted after Arnold and Charley Comisky almost ruined the game for good, I don't know. But to try to ruin a man's life by digging up dirt on him, a man who was a player of some renown who was the face of the team for a period in the 80's, that was a disgrace worthy of the lifetime ban he accepted and then weedled his way out of. Faye Vincente should be ashamed of himself.

You could leave out the conviction/pardon, the mistreatment of players/managers/staff/fans, the financial shenanigans, both present and past, and he still shouldn't make it. What did he do that was so special as to rate being in the HoF, and if he did, why so soon?

Let us not forget that his own stars, ones who were here before him and those he bought and fired, turned against him, until he bought them back, well maybe not all of them. Some of them still don't speak credibly about him--Gossage and Winfield. Jackson, whom I love, is a shill. Yogi is a shadow of his former self.

Snubbing Miller and Steinbrenner only shows that the committee process is still about politics, which is sad. Gillick was very good executive, but what got him elected is he was well liked by his contemporaries. Miller and the Boss, however, made their enemies, so gigantic contribution be gone.

Steinbrenner should be in. He took a once proud franchise that had fallen on very bad times and made it relevant again. He embraced free agency, remaking the baseball landscape. (Both Arizona and Florida were the ones "buying" championships with free agents rather than the farm system.) And in "overpaying" for some star players, that increased the wages for all players, and gave a lot of young athletes a reason to go into baseball rather than football or basketball or something else.

Yes he was banned twice, but those bans were later rescinded or expired, and I think not putting him in during his lifetime is enough punishment.

As for Pete Rose, there has been a long standing, well publicized rule about not betting on games in which you have a duty to perform. That gets you automatically on the permanently ineligible list. And until 1990, that would not have made you ineligible for the HoF. until 1990 Shoeless Joe was eligible to be in the Hall. It wasn't until after Pete Rose's agreement with the commissioner that the HoF (a private organization with no contractual ties to MLB) changed its rules that permanently ineligible people were no longer eligible for the Hall.

Miller should also be in. Both Marvin & George before Pat.

[8] I've been there, it's nothing that I find extraordinarily special -- it's just a museum about baseball. If it's truly about about baseball and all things that are important regarding baseball, whether it's generally accepted (Gehrig) or not generally accepted (Rose, Steinbrenner, etc) then it should still be in. It's all one big dog-and-pony show, if it falls under the criteria of baseball, represents something historically important to its history, then why shouldn't it be in there?

I never get why people need to get voted in to these types of things. They are either historically important or they are not, should Mario Mendoza be referenced in the HOF? I think so because his name is used to refer to players hitting below .200. A fan should know these things.

It's all political as william says and it's all bs. I don't really look at the HOF as some religious shrine, it's just a place where a bunch of shit about baseball is collected.

Comment awaiting moderation? Is that new at the banter, Alex?

12) We've been getting killed with Spam so it also happens to put the random comment by a regular in moderation. Huge pain, for me and for you guys. Sorry about that. I try to approve as soon as I'm notified.

More on Miller above in new post from Emma.

Steinbrenner will get in, no doubt. But for what got him kicked out of baseball twice, he does not really deserve to be in the very first time on the ballot (which he was on via a loophole iirc). I don't think Steinbrenner wll be kept out the next time, but principle was an active ingredient.